Margaret Thatcher Options

[On the edge]

I associate the 80's Zeitgeist of conspicuous consumption and greed with Thatcherism, mainly because of the images of champers-quaffing yuppies getting-rich-quick on the floatation of public assets and deregulated financial institutions. Thatcher was responsible for the privatisation, but I don't know how much she was responsible for the consumption and greed. I think that's more easily seen as a reaction to the naff dreary 70's, and quite possibly has more to do with Dallas on the TV than domestic politics.

For me Thatcher's legacy was the closure of the uncompetitive heavy and manufacturing industries without any replacement. British industry had virtually stood still since the Great War and certainly since the thirties, so while Europe and Asia had been modernising and reconstructing since 1945, Blighty went into the 70's still coming to terms with the loss of Empire. Thatcher defeated the unions who had dogged the decade, but she did nothing to reconstruct and modernise British manufacturing, and the social despair that created in Wales and the North is still an appalling legacy.

Britain has some of the best universities in the world and Brits have a long tradition of invention, innovation and imagination, yet we're still waiting for a government to embrace that and give us something more than call centres to work in, though again this is as much a problem of our class-bound society with chinless public school wonders assuming the reins of industry and government irrespective of their ability to lead. That was the promise of Thatcherism, a classless society and country of opportunity, but Conservatism reigns and we're sill a nation of Lions led by Donkeys.

That's spot on.

[motormad]

And is that her fault and only her fault?

[blackdog]

Well actually TDH there were a good few people who thought Ted Heath was a Socialist anyway!

Probably more socialist than Tony Blair.

[On the edge]

And is that her fault and only her fault?

Just a view.

The key fault of the 'Thatcherisim' bit for sure. If the outdated manufacturing industry and mining could have been replaced with other economically valuable and commercially viable work then its highly unlikely that we would have been so bitterly divided. For instance, if a mine could have been closed and all the miners quickly redeployed, on similar wage rates in cleaner jobs, they wouldn't have gone on strike.

She didn't want what many thought was the obvious solution to the replacement of rates; a local income tax, preferring instead a poll tax. Probably fairer in concept than the rates, but in reality almost uncollectable.

She was brought down by Europe. Arguably because she was one of the few who have ever stood up to it. However, beware of your friends; particularly the inadequate. Geoffrey Howe did for her, ironically at the behest of another strong woman, his wife!

She certainly brought back the nation's self respect and more, stood up to the Soviet Union. We have quite forgotten that constant threat and worry. Indeed, some of our political / union leaders at the time were actually in their pay!

In personal terms, she was a conviction politician, firm and forthright and stood her ground. Like all of us, she had personal foibles, and came across as bossy and prim. Just the sort of woman most public schoolboys love - reminds them of Matron.

What drove her? Like many daughters, she idolised her dad. He was an Alderman on Grantham Council who got bounced in the Labour landslide in 1945, and stripped of all his committees. That's why she hated socialists. If you have a look at the Conservative Party aims and objectives for the 1945 election - they look remarkably similar to the vision she delivered!

Anyway, one things for sure she was necessary in 1979 - we could not have carried on as we were and there was no one else up to the job at the time. When all said and done, she was a great leader and great leaders inspire great love and great hatred. Dare I say, there were people who hated Winston Churchill with an absolute venom.

[Berkshirelad]

I find the whole debaccle about being nice about people when they are dead fake.
If you think they're stupid in their life then their death doesn't change that.

There's nothing worse than hypocrisy.. In my death if people thought I was a knob then I'd rather them say so then be all nice "because it's the polite thing to do".

I don't quite follow you here...

Why is it a debacle?

[On the edge]

Probably more socialist than Tony Blair.

I didn't know Tony Blair had any political convictions Heath was certainly more socialist than darlin' Arold!

[Jayjay]

John Smith, the Labour party leader who died in office, had a private funeral and a memorial at Westminster Abbey. Why is Margaret Thatcher getting a ceromonial funeral like Princess Diana and the Queen Mother?

[stewiegriffin]

John Smith, the Labour party leader who died in office, had a private funeral and a memorial at Westminster Abbey. Why is Margaret Thatcher getting a ceromonial funeral like Princess Diana and the Queen Mother?

God only knows. Last cost estimate was £5million. Apparently we can't afford anything other than a benefits cut for the disabled though.

As Frankie Boyle put it, this will be the first time the 21 gun salute blows up the coffin.

[Simon Kirby]

Probably more socialist than Tony Blair.

Thatcher was more Liberal by conviction than Tory so the Socialist comparison with Heath isn't particularly enlightening. Blair continued with the deregulation, but allowed the Big Fat State to rebound out of control. What we have now is Dave who is essentially an anti-Thatcherite - he has no conviction politics but believes in the Big Fat State; Milliband doesn't know what he believes in, and the Lib Dems don't believe in anything but power for its own sake, and they'll tell you what they think you want to hear.

[blackdog]

John Smith, the Labour party leader who died in office, had a private funeral and a memorial at Westminster Abbey. Why is Margaret Thatcher getting a ceromonial funeral like Princess Diana and the Queen Mother?

John Smith was a Labour party leader for a couple of years in opposition, Thatcher was Prime Minister for over 11 years, and was the first/only female PM - hardly the best comparison.

Not that I'm in favour of an OTT funeral - will we have to do the same for Tony Blair?

[pbonnay]

Just to put you straight.......the Three Day Week took place under a Tory government.

..and was caused by striking coal miners whose union wanted to hold the country to ransom. The same union that Thatcher had to later take on.

Indeed, during the subsequent miner's strike, I can remember Comrade Scargill urging all union members to switch on every electrical appliance they had at 6pm, so as to overload the network in an attempt to cause blackouts again. It didn't work as he did not have the support he thought he had and the power stations had built up huge reserves of fuel before the strike.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

..and was caused by striking coal miners whose union wanted to hold the country to ransom. The same union that Thatcher had to take on.

Indeed, during the subsequent miner's strike, I can remember Comrade Scargill urging all union members to switch on every electrical appliance they had at 6pm, so as to overload the network in an attempt to cause blackouts again. It didn't work as he did not have the support he thought he had and the power stations had built up huge reserves of fuel before the strike.

Even Kinnock thought Scargill was a loon

[pbonnay]

Even Kinnock thought Scargill was a loon

The last I heard of Scargill was him losing a court case to the NUM where they stopped paying for the posh apartment in the Barbican. The NUM said no more was he to use union money like a personal bank account!

So I looked in today's Guardian to see who would be slating the late Margaret Thatcher. They were:
George Galloway
Gerry Adams
David Hopper (Durham Miners Assoc.)
Peter Tatchell
Ken Livingstone

[Blake]

What a surprise.

The Guardian can only ever be relied on to be full of fairy tales by pinko loons.

[Weavers Walk]

..and was caused by striking coal miners whose union wanted to hold the country to ransom. The same union that Thatcher had to later take on.

Some people on these threads continually bang on about democracy and the will of the people being paramount. Heath called snap general election directly as a result of these actions.

Perhaps you could tell us the outcome of that election and what it showed in terms of the peoples attitude to the coal miners?

[Andy Capp]

Some people on these threads continually bang on about democracy and the will of the people being paramount. Heath called snap general election directly as a result of these actions.

Perhaps you could tell us the outcome of that election and what it showed in terms of the peoples attitude to the coal miners?

I'm not sure, Wilson won more seats, but with fewer votes than Heath.

[Simon Kirby]

What a surprise.

The Guardian can only ever be relied on to be full of fairy tales by pinko loons.

More ad hominem, and a nice homophobic slur too, well done.

Peter Tatchell was quite right of course, Thatcher introduced the first anti-gay legislation in 100 years.

[pbonnay]

More ad hominem, and a nice homophobic slur too, well done.

What is homophobic about the term "pinko loon"?

[Andy Capp]

What is homophobic about the term "pinko loon"?

In truth, Blake wasn't, but Blake is wrong to say Peter Tatchell was lying, and being that Peter Tatchell is a well known gay rights activist, it could be considered that a person who is against his philosophy has anti-gay sentiment.

[NWNREADER]

In truth, Blake wasn't, but Blake is wrong to say Peter Tatchell was lying, and being that Peter Tatchell is a well known gay rights activist, it could be considered that a person who is against his philosophy has anti-gay sentiment.

Could it? Really? Doubt anyone could justify that as a serious proposition