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NWNREADER
post Feb 19 2011, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Feb 19 2011, 10:19 AM) *
And as I said on the mayor thread, the council could have had a proper consulatation, and if there was demand for a referendum, they could have held it with the locals to save money. Cost cannot be used as a barrier for a mayor referendum when the council intentionally bodged a consultation on the leadership model.


How did the gathering of signatures calling for a referendum go?

has the date for the vote been set? Candidates nominated and declared? Manifestos launched?
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Cognosco
post Feb 19 2011, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Feb 19 2011, 11:18 AM) *
It's a good point but I suspect there'd actually much greater cost in doing it online.


Explain? blink.gif Or are you just worried about your poor Granny being exempt? tongue.gif

You have also stated if I a correct that everyone has access to the internet through libraries etc? wink.gif


--------------------
Vexatious Candidate?
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NWNREADER
post Feb 19 2011, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (Cognosco @ Feb 19 2011, 12:49 PM) *
Explain? blink.gif Or are you just worried about your poor Granny being exempt? tongue.gif

You have also stated if I a correct that everyone has access to the internet through libraries etc? wink.gif

The issue comes with ensuring only eligible voters vote, and only once.......
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user23
post Feb 19 2011, 02:09 PM
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QUOTE (Cognosco @ Feb 19 2011, 12:49 PM) *
Explain? blink.gif Or are you just worried about your poor Granny being exempt? tongue.gif

You have also stated if I a correct that everyone has access to the internet through libraries etc? wink.gif
There's setting up and the administering the online voting system. This is purchasing the hardware it goes on, designing, testing and implementing the software and then paying someone to look after the day to day running of it. This wouldn't come cheap and there's much more to it than my brief outline.

Then there's the verification process, setting this up and informing people through whichever medium is deemed appropriate of their PIN or whatever they'd use to identify themselves. This needs to be as secure as possible.

It's not out of the question and would probably be cheaper in the long run but in a time when Local Government has had it's funding cut, given then initial outlay, it's unlikely to happen.
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NWNREADER
post Feb 19 2011, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Feb 19 2011, 02:09 PM) *
There's setting up and the administering the online voting system. This is purchasing the hardware it goes on, designing, testing and implementing the software and then paying someone to look after the day to day running of it. This wouldn't come cheap and there's much more to it than by brief outline.

Then there's the verification process, setting this up and informing people through whichever medium is deemed appropriate of their PIN or whatever they'd use to identify themselves. This needs to be as secure as possible.

It's not out of the question and would probably be cheaper in the long run but in a time when Local Government has had it's funding cut, given then initial outlay, it's unlikely to happen.


I think it is the way forward, but we really do not have the infrastructure or psyche, and it is not a priority.
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Iommi
post Feb 19 2011, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Feb 19 2011, 10:54 AM) *
But you said it wouldn't cost a penny, when it would cost tens of thousands to print the ballot papers whenever the election might be held.

You lied and are trying to blame it on someone else; will you resign from your position in the Labour Party?

No money has been spent, so resigning seems harsh.
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NWNREADER
post Feb 19 2011, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Feb 19 2011, 03:14 PM) *
No money has been spent, so resigning seems harsh.


So, if (if) someone lies but there is nil cost, that is ok?
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Andy Capp
post Feb 19 2011, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Feb 19 2011, 02:37 PM) *
I think it is the way forward, but we really do not have the infrastructure or psyche, and it is not a priority.

There are places now that specialise in these things, so a lot of what user23 says wouldn't be applicable, but that doesn't nessesarily mean it would be cheaper.
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NWNREADER
post Feb 19 2011, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Feb 19 2011, 03:29 PM) *
There are places now that specialise in these things, so a lot of what user23 says wouldn't be applicable, but that doesn't nessesarily mean it would be cheaper.

And trying to run an election on the cheap, by whatever means, is a real recipe for disaster, corruption, etc
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user23
post Feb 19 2011, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Feb 19 2011, 02:37 PM) *
I think it is the way forward, but we really do not have the infrastructure or psyche, and it is not a priority.
I agree. Perhaps they'll be referendum on it some day.
QUOTE (Iommi @ Feb 19 2011, 03:14 PM) *
No money has been spent, so resigning seems harsh.
What if signatures on his petition have been gained as a result of the lie though?
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NWNREADER
post Feb 19 2011, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Feb 19 2011, 11:36 AM) *
How did the gathering of signatures calling for a referendum go?

has the date for the vote been set? Candidates nominated and declared? Manifestos launched?



I am still waiting for the answer. Maybe there is a substantial number to count........
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Richard Garvie
post Feb 19 2011, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Feb 19 2011, 04:14 PM) *
I am still waiting for the answer. Maybe there is a substantial number to count........


Sorry, I've been out. Let me clarify, I didn't lie. I said that it wouldn't cost extra if we held it with the locals. I wasn't talking about printing ballot papers, but the cost of polling stations and the big costs which would have to be brought in solely for a mayor referendum. OK, I was naive, but whatever cost there will be now, the majority could have been avoided on by holding it on the same day as the locals.

Again, the council fudged the consultation and scrubbed off the responses of organisations such as the West Berkshire Partnership because they dared to mention the mayoral system. Very democratic. 2,000 signatures have been gathered so far. The reason for asking for a referendum is not because I believe we should have a mayor. It's so that people can make the decision. Had the consultation been fair, there would be no need for a referendum, would there? For the record, the cost of a mayoral referendum will be £25,000 and will probably be held via a postal vote. That's what we have been saying to people who have asked, and we are using examples of other referendums to base that costing on.

Anyway, this is the CCTV thread. There is a mayor thread on here somewhere.
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Richard Garvie
post Feb 19 2011, 05:04 PM
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As I said on the cuts thread, this has now turned into a question regarding the conduct of our local elected members. It's not doing me any favours, and it should be the opposition members leading the charge on this. Nick Carter (Chief Executive Officer of West Berks), Andy Day (Policy and Communications Manager), Cllr Stansfield (Portfolio holder of CCTV), Graham Jones (leader of the council) and Keith Ullyat (PR spokesperson) have all given different accounts over the past two months. The FOI document suggests they have all misled / lied at least once. I'm actually inclined to take Nick Carter at his word as he has given me no reason to doubt him over any other issue that I have spoken to him about. If we go with what Nick has said throughout this process, that means that not only have the others misled the public, but the FOI document is incorrect and the council have broken the law. We need the truth, and it's about time that the council came out and said there will be an independent review.
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Sidney
post Feb 19 2011, 10:38 PM
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C'mon guys ! They all bloody lie ..... all smiles on the doorstep and tell you what you want to hear ..... then when in power they do what they like. When you make a cross on the ballot paper you just have to hope and pray you get the best of a bad bunch !
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Richard Garvie
post Feb 20 2011, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE (Sidney @ Feb 19 2011, 10:38 PM) *
C'mon guys ! They all bloody lie ..... all smiles on the doorstep and tell you what you want to hear ..... then when in power they do what they like. When you make a cross on the ballot paper you just have to hope and pray you get the best of a bad bunch !


But it shouldn't be like that though, should it?
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NWNREADER
post Feb 20 2011, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Feb 20 2011, 11:35 AM) *
But it shouldn't be like that though, should it?

Are they born fibbers, or does it happen after election?

Is it that only opposition Members are truthful?
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Richard Garvie
post Feb 20 2011, 11:57 AM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Feb 20 2011, 11:48 AM) *
Are they born fibbers, or does it happen after election?

Is it that only opposition Members are truthful?


Not at all. Not all of the councillors have told porkies, not to my knowledge anyway. Some councils do an excellent job, and Conservative controlled South Holland District Council does not mislead people so it's not a Tory thing either. In fact, I know of one or two poorly run Labour Councils.

Didn't somebody make the point before about political parties being like branches of McDonalds? They all have similar core menus, but some are better operated than others and some have better staff / managers?
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NWNREADER
post Feb 20 2011, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Feb 20 2011, 11:57 AM) *
Not at all. Not all of the councillors have told porkies, not to my knowledge anyway. Some councils do an excellent job, and Conservative controlled South Holland District Council does not mislead people so it's not a Tory thing either. In fact, I know of one or two poorly run Labour Councils.

Didn't somebody make the point before about political parties being like branches of McDonalds? They all have similar core menus, but some are better operated than others and some have better staff / managers?


Maybe it is because they are people, so vary in personality, skills etc? People should not stand for parties at local elections, and electors should vote for the best individual, not any party they tie their thinking to. Overall, I agree with your answer to the first point.

2nd question?
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Andy Capp
post Feb 20 2011, 12:22 PM
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My guess is that the vast majority of voters vote for parties.
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Sidney
post Feb 20 2011, 12:24 PM
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I think the people of this country should not only vote for their politicians, but vote on key policies as they arise too. No politician seems to have the "balls" or possibly even the power to do anything radical ? Should we be in Europe for example ? There is a thread on here relating to human rights and it's quite obvious what the public opinion is .... but would any political party REALLY deal with it ?
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