Speeding on Monks Lane Options

[Strafin]

I recieved a lovely letter from Banbury this morning kindly informing me that my driving is so good I am to be awarded points on my license!

It was of course a speeding fixed penalty notice and I am sure I was speeding and will take the hit, but am curious about the legality. Monks lane has absolutely NO signs up stating what the speed limit actually is. I know that it's a 30 and had that confirmed for me this morning by a pretty reliable source , but if I didn't would I have a chance with an appeal? Does anyone know what the law is on this, I can only find heresay and chatter on the internet so far.

[Strafin]

It seems that it is not a legal requirement to display limit signs in areas that are 30mph - the driver is expected to know. Something to do with the height of streetlights, which must be present, and the distance between them.

[GMR]

It seems that it is not a legal requirement to display limit signs in areas that are 30mph - the driver is expected to know. Something to do with the height of streetlights, which must be present, and the distance between them.

The other point is that if they advertised – the speed limit – less people will be caught. And as the objective is to screw money out of the victim then it is best not to display something that people might take notice of.

Speed camera’s are a cash cow for the authorities, therefore it would be very stupid to help the public.

[Guest_NWNREADER_*]

The other point is that if they advertised – the speed limit – less people will be caught. And as the objective is to screw money out of the victim then it is best not to display something that people might take notice of.

Speed camera’s are a cash cow for the authorities, therefore it would be very stupid to help the public.

Not quite fair, as the rules and regulations making it unlawful to put repeaters on 30mph roads that are 'built up areas' far, far pre-date safety cameras. After all, if you had repeater signs on one road that was 30mph by definition then how many other roads would then need them? The cost and clutter of the extra signage would be enormous.
Of course, if one drives into Monks Lane from the east then there is 30mph signs. If one drives in from the west, then the limit has already been 30mph for miles around.

[Strafin]

I've been up and down loads and don't see any at all. West is from the Wash Common end and there is definetly no signs at that end.

[x2lls]

I've been up and down loads and don't see any at all. West is from the Wash Common end and there is definetly no signs at that end.

Delay payment by as much as you can, and ask for evidence. If not forthcoming, then you are the winner. Far too many just accept guilt by accusation.

[ossy1]

Its a restricted road denoted by street lights, therefore no repeater signs required! The signs are at the other end of andover road, as this is also restricted then the limit remains throughout! Sorry

[Guest_NWNREADER_*]

I've been up and down loads and don't see any at all. West is from the Wash Common end and there is definetly no signs at that end.

Exactly - repeater signs are not allowed, from the Wash Common end the 30 limit has existed for some time already...... and from the east the signs are there when the limit changes to 30.

[Biker1]

Exactly - repeater signs are not allowed, from the Wash Common end the 30 limit has existed for some time already...... and from the east the signs are there when the limit changes to 30.

It's all in that rarely read book - The Highway Code!!

[Iommi]

The thing with Monks Lane is that it was once a 40. Some time (not that long) ago, the 40 signs were removed. Monks lane, I think is a strange case in that visibility and indeed, the width of the road, isn't a typical 30, in my view.

[GMR]

Not quite fair, as the rules and regulations making it unlawful to put repeaters on 30mph roads that are 'built up areas' far, far pre-date safety cameras. After all, if you had repeater signs on one road that was 30mph by definition then how many other roads would then need them? The cost and clutter of the extra signage would be enormous.
Of course, if one drives into Monks Lane from the east then there is 30mph signs. If one drives in from the west, then the limit has already been 30mph for miles around.

Which bit is not fair? That they use the speed cameras as a cash cow? In Swindon they removed most of them. Isn’t this government also going to do something about speed cameras?

[Iommi]

NWNREADER said it is unfair to accuse the authorities of profiteering by being reluctant to erect repeaters (to 'help' dupe people in to speeding), because the regulations regard the use of repeaters, pre-dates speed cameras.

I'd like to see more use of road paint. During the day, I tend to more readily notice them than the forest of sign posts these days.

On topic: The national speed limit in built-up areas* is 30, unless otherwise signposted. Monks Lane used to be sign posted as 40, but this changed some time ago.

*Built-up areas are roads where there are street lamps spaced no more than 183 metres apart.

[JeffG]

repeater signs are not allowed

Are you sure? I agree, they are not required because it's a built-up area with street lights, but that's a lot different from not being allowed.

Otherwise the flashing over-speed reminders you see elsewhere would be illegal too.

[Iommi]

Are you sure? I agree, they are not required because it's a built-up area with street lights, but that's a lot different from not being allowed.

Otherwise the flashing over-speed reminders you see elsewhere would be illegal too.

For 30 mph lit roads, no repeaters are permitted under the regulations (Direction 10(2)(a)).

Traffic Advisory Leaflet 1/95 March 1995

[JeffG]

Reading that document, I find it strange that repeaters are not allowed in a 20mph zone either. So how is one supposed to know? You can't have two defaults.

If it were ok just to rely on memory from entering a zone, then no repeaters would be required for any other speed either.

(And be careful not to get caught out if driving in Scotland - there street lamps in a 30mph zone only have to be 185m apart, unlike the 183m in England & Wales )

[Iommi]

Reading that document, I find it strange that repeaters are not allowed in a 20mph zone either. So how is one supposed to know?

The entrance to the 20 mph zone is sign posted and in many cases, a 20 mph zone would have traffic calming measures.

[JeffG]

Re-read my second paragraph.

You can have traffic calming measures in a 30mph zone too.

My point was that "no repeater means 30mph, or it might be 20mph" is a nonsense.

[spartacus]

The entrance to the 20 mph zone is sign posted and in many cases, a 20 mph zone would have traffic calming measures.

The introduction of speed limits normally follows a consultation process involving the police, local authority and parish councillors/residents. Whilst the police normally say that they "do not object" to a new 20mph Zone, they ALWAYS indicate that will not ENFORCE it. Therefore the 20mph speed limit has to be self-enforcing, through humps, bumps, pinch points, on-street parking chicanes..... that sort of thing. The standard police speed detectors are not intended for prosecutions at speeds between 20-30.

Police are happy, as any roads within the zone that continue to have problems can be fobbed off onto the council "You need more engineering"

The difference between a 20pmh Zone and a 20mph Limit is that the 'Zone' MUST have the '20' signs at every entry point saying 'ZONE', normally with a road marking too. Thereafter there is no need to stick up repeaters. It saves on clutter.....

With a 'Limit' you'd just get a standard '20' sign and repeater signs on the road affected.

[spartacus]

The thing with Monks Lane is that it was once a 40. Some time (not that long) ago, the 40 signs were removed. Monks lane, I think is a strange case in that visibility and indeed, the width of the road, isn't a typical 30, in my view.

Speed limits are normally determined by accident stats, percentile speeds and road characteristics. The characteristics of Monks Lane (relatively wide, with open aspect to the south side) give the feel of a faster road. But with a bit of pressure from local residents who lean on local councillors, who campaign for slower speeds so they can exit from their driveways, sometimes speed limits go through even if the local authority or the police think it is not appropriate. Ultimately, speed limits are determined by politicians..... Councillors responsible for Highways..

It would be interesting to see the report prepared on this speed limit. (Freedom of Information request?)

You might find that the police didn't support the change when it went from 40mph to 30mph? They may have said it could go in, but they wouldn't support enforcement...

A few years pass and now it's seen as an easy hit for plod looking to make up his monthly numbers.....?

I've been up and down loads and don't see any at all. West is from the Wash Common end and there is definetly no signs at that end.

You're driving with your eyes shut then..... rather worrying.....

If you come in from the 'Tesco side' there's '30' speed limit signs just before you get to the college roundabout. From the other end the 30mph speed limit starts before you get to Park House school entrance and way further along Essex Street/Enborne Road. As stated, you do not have repeater signs in areas with street lights. It makes it illegal (and that includes putting road marking circles saying '30')


Evnin' all.......

[Berkshirelad]

A couple of points.

The Police cannot enforce 20 mph speed limits/zones with cameras as none is type approved below 30 mph.

There are a lot of school/college pupils travelling along Monks Lane - Newbury College, St Gabriels; Park House; Falkland; St Barts...