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Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 1 2017, 03:48 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38826211

Women are treated like slaves and animals in some countries. But lets all pretend its not happening. Im just surprised Trump the bogeyman has not been blamed. Just whatever you do don't say his name 3 times.... Trump, Trump, Trump....

Candyman....

Posted by: newres Feb 1 2017, 06:32 PM

Obviously we don't treat our women like that here:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jun/07/ukguns.features11

https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1379531-man-who-killed-wife-in-stabbing-frenzy-sent-to-carstairs/

Posted by: newres Feb 1 2017, 06:34 PM

And here's the guy to fix it:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/13/list-of-donald-trump-sexual-misconduct-allegations

He raped his wife.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 1 2017, 06:43 PM

Love a google don't we. You can adjust your thinking to what you search for to back up your own tenuous arguments. Here you appear to be suggesting that women in this country are treated on a par with how they are treated in Afghanistan!!! Good job.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 1 2017, 07:07 PM

It's yourfault, you seemed to be criticizing anova cultoor! Know wot I mean? S just cultural differences in it.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 2 2017, 05:30 PM

Then there's this edifying tidbit,
"Members of a Rotherham sex gang today yelled 'Allahu Akbar' in court as they were jailed for abusing a girl who fell pregnant aged 12 after being groomed with alcohol."

Nice

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 2 2017, 08:10 PM

Didn't see that on the news, wonder why?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 2 2017, 08:25 PM

They didn't want to wind-up the knuckle draggers!

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 2 2017, 08:29 PM

Do you believe there are parts of the world inhabited by humans that are biologically predisposed to mistreat women?

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 2 2017, 09:02 PM

Who? Footie fans?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 3 2017, 07:52 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/02/archbishop-canterbury-insists-completely-unaware-summer-camp/

Yet another report alleging white Christian men used their position of authority and the cover of their complicit religion to abuse children.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 3 2017, 08:13 AM

Bl00dy white christian scum. Worst people in the world. One common theme is Religion. Why not ban it all? Its all mumbo jumbo anyway. You may as well believe in fairies.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 3 2017, 08:30 AM

Yep, and leave it to the humans. Stalin, Hitler, and today Kim, Xi etc, etc, and their camp followers might have been firm, but they knew and know where to draw the line.....Be careful what you wish for!

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 3 2017, 10:52 AM

Title of the thread, "where is the social media outcry" and one idiot posts the one story that's ALL over the media. Sigh.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 3 2017, 12:29 PM

I believe there is a difference between media and "social" media?
Not sure though which one spews the most crap!

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 3 2017, 02:30 PM

probably the same place the social media outcry was over football clubs & child abuse.

Even the tabloids seem to have dropped that one.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 3 2017, 06:07 PM

Terrorist attack in Paris today, BBC news at six? Nothing, nowt,zilch. Censor the news much I think!

Ahh as you where just bin on. (Stupid boy)!

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 3 2017, 06:13 PM

Never mind, another alternative fact will be a long soon! 😋

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 3 2017, 06:18 PM

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 3 2017, 09:10 PM

The point here is that you did here about this story, because the BBC web magazine showed it to you, and you've extraporlated from the report of one heinous crime and infered that this is typical of the treatment of women in not just Afghanistan but other (presumably foreign) countries too.

I'm not defending this crime, not at all, it goes without saying that it is utterly barbaric, and Afghanistan does indeed sound like an absolutely terrible place to live, but I'm conscious too that this story conveniently fits a popular narrative.

And yes, such barbarity does happen elsewhere: "In 1538 Thomas Barrie spent a whole day with his ears nailed to the pillory in Newbury, England, before having them cut off to release him"* - Set there no doubt by the Winchcombe immolent who the town is soon to venerate with a bronze in the high street.

*David Nash Ford (2001), Ghosts from Berkshire Places Beginning with 'N', Finchampstead, Berkshire: Royal Berkshire History, retrieved 25 October 2010.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 3 2017, 09:28 PM

Hopefully we have moved on a bit since 1538! But I do understand this is an issue of education as well. If science was at the core of a lot of teaching in Countries rather than religious intolerance then things may improve. However, the mad mullahs wont be letting that happen any time soon..

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 3 2017, 10:35 PM

That's certainly a reasonable argument, but remember too how chemistry, mathematics, and astronomy have roots in the Islamic Golden Age - alcemy, algebra, alkali, and curiously enough alcohol too, all arabic words.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 18 2017, 07:45 AM

Another story that won't see much coverage - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/17/europes-biggest-paper-bild-bogus-refugee-sex-mob-story

A nutter in a small Spanish town tries to rob a shop and shouts incoherently in Basque, and the national media pick up the story, add a suicide vest for effect, and have him shouting in Arabic.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 18 2017, 10:12 AM

Its called 'fake news' used by every side of every argument. Oh, and a person with diminished mental capacity is not a 'nutter' [sic] thank you. That's a hate crime now.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 19 2017, 01:48 AM

Phail!!!

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 19 2017, 08:51 AM

It's what newres calls the "swivel eyed, Daily Mail reading xenophobes" on here!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 19 2017, 06:16 PM

It's not the diminished mental capacity that makes the chap a nutter, it's the shooting up a corner shop - he could be a brain surgeon for all I care, but he's still a nutter. Point is he's not an Islamist nutter; the Spanish national paper just made that up and the British nationals repeated the lie because it's the kind of story that plays well to their readership.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 19 2017, 06:48 PM

Just to save us all time can you please show us the links to the offending articles? I can (on a rather quick search) only find one reference to the reported phrase (wail, of course). Or, is the Guardian making its own fake news?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 19 2017, 07:01 PM

This link was in the Guardian article:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/aishagani/story-about-a-gunman-screaming-allahu-akbar-false?utm_term=.agQJ0O4Wl#.yn9WXnN9Z

And if that isn't easy enough, just search Google using: spanish supermarket allahu akbar

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4110542/Gunman-screaming-Allahu-Akbar-opens-fire-Spanish-supermarket.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2591800/gunman-opens-fire-in-spanish-supermarket-while-carrying-bag-filled-with-petrol-and-gunpowder/

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/11/gunman-screaming-allahu-akbar-opens-fire-in-spanish-supermarket.html

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 19 2017, 07:15 PM

"According to Spain's La Region newspaper, witnesses reported the man shouted "Allahu Akbar" as he entered the shop - but others said they could not be sure what he said.

Police sources told La Region they have since ruled out any political or religious motive for the attack, and also reportedly say they do not believe the gunman intended to kill anyone."

Hardly a right wing rant claiming he was a Muslim terrorist is it?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 19 2017, 07:24 PM

It depends if you are one to read beyond the headlines or not, but in this instant I think Simon's point is fair.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 19 2017, 08:19 PM

Are there bad muslims? Yes
Some are nice. Some are bad.
Religion is the key. The majority of western culture hss moved on from believing in gods and angels and the afterlife.
Anyone who believes in this stuff could if you look at it through scientific eyes be declared insane. Or branded a nutter!

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 19 2017, 10:59 PM

A joke yes? Read beyond the headlines? This is where the Facebook generation has got us, forming opinion from the headlines! It's ok just remember, when in doubt just think, WWJD. (What would Jeremy do).

Posted by: newres Feb 20 2017, 06:24 AM

That's the royal family locked up then.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 20 2017, 10:57 AM

Would save a few quid.....

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 20 2017, 06:19 PM

The impartial view of the Guardian even extends to the TV! Here's the word on last night's BBC drama SS GB,

"Part of me wonders if, in adapting this 1978 novel now, the BBC is unwittingly supplying Brexit propaganda. SS-GB may seem to be counterfactual history but it serves, too, as allegory of the all-too-real German domination Theresa May will trigger article 50 to escape."

Excuse me while I go and giggle behind the sofa!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 20 2017, 06:29 PM

Do you see a correlation between Brexit and the prejudiced media coverage of stories with an Islamic angle?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 20 2017, 07:15 PM

The Rupert Murdoch owned press? Why do his papers sell more than the guardians of the world? If people didn't want to read a lot of the sensationist garbage in these red tops they wouldn't. They buy them because they don't want to read about how JC is saving the labour party (LOL) but they do want ro read about some terrorist thats living in the UK on benefits that they contribute towards. And it makes them cross and they vote brexit.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 20 2017, 07:35 PM

QED - RM owned press sells many papers because the average Joe is at least a bit of a bigot and a bit prejudice. It's called appealing to the lowest denominator; populist if you will and the sheep lap it up.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 20 2017, 07:54 PM

No one ia arguing with that. Would you want the country full of guardiansta types though each trying to be better than the other in a constant battle to prove they are at the top of the snowflake tree? Personally I think I wouldn't. Perhaps the press is not as balanced as it should be. Some TV networks try and make up for it though such as the BBC and C4.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 20 2017, 08:08 PM

I think you are building a straw man argument there. Just because one complains about a spiteful and antagonistic press, doesn't mean that the same person wishes a misty white puffy cloud existence either. What I would prefer is on one hand, people would just be more considerate and on the other hand people weren't so easily offended.

If that can't happen, I'd like to see people become more open-minded. That people would scrutinise what they see and hear more. It is doing that which has made the species as successful as it is; however, I am starting to see some kind of dumbing down occurring.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 20 2017, 08:38 PM

Yes, but why the conflation of Brexit with anti-Islamic propaganda? The two things have nothing directly in common so to segue from one to the other is curious.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 20 2017, 09:10 PM

You are being facetious. You well know that snowflakes link brexit and islamophobia. Its a bit like saying you like Trump and are a remainer. They dont have anything to do with one another but ive not met a remainer who is pro trump? Have you?

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 21 2017, 12:29 AM

Its going to rain tomorrow, BREXIT!! (well, why not?)

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 21 2017, 03:47 AM

I'm a Brexit and am 'anti-Trump'! Mind you, my Brexit vote had next to nothing to do with immigration.


Interesting passage discussing the merits of 'snowflake':

"So if the right are calling the left snowflakes for being liberal, and the left are calling the right snowflakes for expressing offence, and the old are calling the young snowflakes for being too thin-skinned, and the young are pointing out that the older generation seem to be the most offended by what they’re doing, then the only winner is the phrase itself. It’s particularly effective given that there’s really no comeback to it: in calling someone a snowflake, you are not just shutting down their opinion, but telling them off for being offended that you are doing so. And if you, the snowflake, are offended, you are simply proving that you’re a snowflake. It’s a handcuff of an insult and nobody has the key."

I'm also led to believe it was a phrase originally used to describe people who were against the abolition of slavery!

Posted by: On the edge Feb 21 2017, 07:00 AM

The biggest concern I had voting for Brexit was that the Country doesn't seem to have kept the intellectual capability or entrepreneurial skills to survive successfully on its own. That concern hasn't gone away.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 21 2017, 09:01 AM

I think it still has all those and even if it didn't, I don't see how Brexit changes anything.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 21 2017, 11:11 AM

It doesn't change it at all, simply the outcome.

I firmly believe that if we'd stayed in Europe, we would have become the new Eastonia, or Greece to Germany's Rome. In other words a cheap labour, unskilled economy; trailer trash writ large. We have a chance to escape that fate, but only if our 'middle class' stop their retrospective wailing and get on with the job of managing us to keep up with World economics. Our acknowledged very poorly trained and educated management could well sink us.

Posted by: Rdg Feb 21 2017, 11:24 AM

The reason brexit and islamophobia have become linked seems to be due to the whole campaigning tactic (full of factual inaccuracies) used by some of -

Europe's SE Border is being inundated by refugees form Islamic countries, as some muslims are terrorists it therefore must be true some of the refugees are terrorists, Europe has no internal borders checks and everyone wants to come to the uK which is paved with gold, therefore calais will fill with islamic refugees including terrorists and the EU will make us take some and we are bound to therefore be forced to take terrorists by the Eu and even if not we are full up anyway and Rotheram proves all muslims are nasty people we don't want so let's leave the EU and "take control of our borders" and all will be lovely and shiny and we will live happily ever after.

I won't even begin to point out the factual and logical fallacies other than to point out if the government actually gave a tosh about immigration and their 100k target they might not have let in 160k non eu immigrants last year that we have always had 100% control over

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 21 2017, 01:19 PM

I think that's a very different reason, there isn't any more islamaphobia around, its just that now people feel more able to let it be known. The debate opened up the whole cannaworms so people can talk now without bein call ed racist, or Nazi!! very simple, FGM, arranged marriage, 'honor killin, burning prisoners alive in metal cages, driving tanks over lines of prisoners, captured women used as sex slaves, bombs in our underground, bombs on our buses, hackin the head off young solder boys in a London st. Kinda gives a whole religion a bad press. Stop doing that and people's might just start to come around..Not too difficult is it. Their people not luvvied up saints.

Posted by: Rdg Feb 21 2017, 01:35 PM

I don't condone any of that but so called christians do pretty much the same and we don't brand all christians the same way - I don't remember a clamour to stop all Roman catholics entering the country when the IRA did the hyde park or manchester bombings - also FGM is related to location not strictly religion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_female_genital_mutilation, if you want a christian version of IS look up Lords resistance Army in Uganda/Congo.

Note I am not saying that we must respect cultural norms or any bull like that - I am saying religions of all types are used by nutters/sadists to justify their actions (I include the US far right in that group as well)

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 21 2017, 02:16 PM

I speak as having a ski slope of liberal opinion, but even I find it uncomfortable being in the company of strangers who distrust me as being a nonbeliever. I once had to visit the Apple Store in the East End of London and I found myself being on a 'heightened state of alert'.

Posted by: Rdg Feb 21 2017, 03:01 PM

I am always on a heightened state of alert when around serious believers of any variety - otherwise I am likely to say something very insensitive and inflamatory

Posted by: On the edge Feb 21 2017, 03:53 PM

Sad really. If you really analysed it, religion isn't the only reason for vile behaviours. These generally occur from perverted thinking by ill educated people. Communists, national socialists, facists, etc.etc.etc, all of whom were atheist, or agnostic at best. You'll find nutters and sadists in every human society. You'll also find perverted propoganda, which makes it flourish.

Posted by: Rdg Feb 21 2017, 04:22 PM

Exactly my point - people look at IS and say "all muslims are vile" rather than "look there are a bunch of vile human beings using a a forced interpretation of a religion to try and justify their actions". Hence we end up with the type of propaganda used during Brexit and leading to the kind of comments like this on the nwn Brexit story

You tories have said enough **** put this country in **** over the last 40 years. Leaving Europe, was not just about making money or business. Leavers voted to leave the eu, course billions of pounds being paid into it and we get no help. Plus inmirgrates that should not be in this country in the first place. Workers yes who put back in to the communities. But those who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. And criminals who kill and rape, and rob people. Soon as they come over to the uk, so thanks to the British gov who screwed the British people over for 40 years.

Posted by: blackdog Feb 21 2017, 06:25 PM

Surprised at the Guardian stance on this - surely it is the 'all-too-real right wing domination Brexit has triggered'.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 21 2017, 08:01 PM

I think the red tops may have a field day with this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39045923

1 million? WTF? Sorry but this is why people get angry (with the caveat that this was the daily mail... If true though we have effectively given a terrorist 1 million pounds of tax payer money). And I dread to think how he spent it....

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 21 2017, 11:24 PM

I am proud to work for a company that I sat on the steering committee of to select a new ERP system. We could have selected a nice fully established product that lots of people have implemented before. Instead we went for the bleeding edge ERP system of Dynamics 365 for Operations in the Azure cloud. I'm just thankful that some CEOs have vision. I'm also arranging for a graduate trainee program with the assistance of helpful bosses to get people on the road to a successful future. I used to work for a horrible company. So glad I left and now wake in the morning looking forward to work.

All I am saying is that we can all do better and encourage people. You just need to leave the job you are in if you are unhappy. You may win. You may lose. But you can spend years and years at a job that is unfullfilling and not realise you are wasting the best years of your life. I did.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 22 2017, 07:49 AM

Fortunate indeed. Sadly, life isn't quite so straightforward for most individuals and the opportunities to jump are becoming fewer. The interesting biut here is the 'horrible company' you previously worked for. Why was it so and what did you do to effect change? That's the malaise with UK managements today.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 22 2017, 10:33 AM

It was a lovely company taken over and destroyed by crapita. You can't change a company like crapita from within.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 22 2017, 01:37 PM

....and that's it in a nutshell.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 22 2017, 08:24 PM

I don't know if this is valid, but this is where I see Brexit Britain going, and what can happen when snow melts.

https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 22 2017, 10:33 PM

Ah, takes me back to the Boardroom, such memories,so many heart attacks.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 22 2017, 10:42 PM

Heres something novel. Our CEO has said if you are in a meeting and you think its not a beneficial use of your time just leave and tell people to speak to him if they have a problem with it. Good leadership.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 22 2017, 10:46 PM

Umm, I was given a little booklet when I joined a nationalised firm back in 1970; it contained exactly the same message. We've come a long way haven't we!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 22 2017, 10:59 PM

I suppose its a business culture thing. I like doing not talking. This enables me to do. And why are some old ideas bad? All ideas need revisiting. You need to constantly review the business model. Do you not agree?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 23 2017, 12:45 AM

Most of my meetings are on the web. I use a wireless ear piece so I can keep mobile while they natter.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 23 2017, 08:05 AM

Yes, of course! I was simply trying to explain my concern that we've lost the intellectual and entrepreneurial skill needed to successfully exploit Brexit. What you are saying tends to support that. You have escaped from Capita, by your account and others, a large, influential, but dreadful firm and you've found a good place elsewhere. Its good to hear that your new firm take strategic management very seriously and are investing in the future development of the business. You are clearly excited by the tools being used, rightly so. Again, in a nutshell, that's the issue. The tools and methods aren't new, its simply businesses like Capita ignore or don't use them and other firms now have no need to do so, because they have headquarters elsewhere. Its also interesting that you like doing, rather than talking yet rightly want to review the models; I'm sure you'll see, as in the time worn phrase, those two statements don't compute. In fact, way back, it was an American consultant's gibe that UK management liked to do, rather than think.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 27 2017, 04:11 PM

Just another day in the life of your average peaceful country folk. Oh wait!

https://cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/27/german-hostage-beheaded-terror-group-abu-sayyaf-philippines/amp/

Coming to a town near you.

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 28 2017, 10:02 AM

Fanatics killing strangers - already here

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/jo-cox-killing-shooting-mp-birstall-west-yorkshire

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 28 2017, 10:22 AM

Wonder who he learned that from? Police thought he was a hungry Hawaiian, he kept shoutin Aloha Snack bar! Or something.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 28 2017, 01:16 PM

And lets not forget

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25301907

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 28 2017, 02:03 PM

and these -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-181154/Eight-years-samurai-sword-attack.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-175258/MPs-relief-Samurai-attack-conviction.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/28/newsid_2527000/2527805.stm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/one-man-killed-and-another-critically-injured-in-samurai-sword-attack-on-loyalist-in-belfast-10377695.html

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 28 2017, 02:46 PM

At the bottom of your mental barrel yet? Good tip when in bottom of hole only idiot keeps digging. Confucius

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 28 2017, 03:14 PM

If you can keep digging, how do you know you are at the bottom?

Posted by: Cognosco Feb 28 2017, 05:55 PM

When you find your ladder is 10 metres below the top?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 28 2017, 07:55 PM

And https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/27/us/muslims-give-money-to-jewish-institutions-that-are-attacked.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur.

Hate drives people to commit truly awful things, but we can choose how to respond.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 28 2017, 10:00 PM

Not a great deal of money and I note its the NY Times. Daily Mail. New York Times. CNN. Washington Post. Fox.. All have a slant on how to report the "news". So Trump may have a point. Its a tricky one. I want a free press. But how "free" are journalists from the "narrative" of the newspaper they submit columns to?

Posted by: dannyboy Feb 28 2017, 11:29 PM

The Truth Is Out There

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 1 2017, 01:07 AM

The story was first carried by CNN I believe, and CNN is reasonably credible and owned by Time Warner, nothing to do with Fox. The New York Times is a reliable source - wikiperia tells me it has won 119 Pulitzer Prizes, more than any other newspaper, so that's not too shabby, and it has nothing to do with Fox.

But is the issue here really the newspaper? For me I see hope in the story and that's what I take away from it.