Victoria Park café plan Options

[Andy Capp]

Can anyone make any sense of this? http://www.newbury.gov.uk/pdfs/victoria-pa...onsultation.pdf I think it might be alright, but it is a magnificent piece of obfuscation. A lot of information, but little in the way of showing what they intended to be build. I see a potential wharf museum in the making.

[blackdog]

I can't say as I like this style - a traditional park building would be more to my taste, but that's just an issue of taste.

What worries me most about this design is that there seems to be too little space protected from the elements - a big semi-open air area (roofed but with no walls) will be pretty useless for 6 months of the year while there is always more indoor space needed for storage, toilets, cafe etc. An open air element is vital, but this seems an expensive way of providing it. I guess it will be possible to wall in some of it at a later date.

However, my biggest beef is that, once again, we are being consulted on one design. Why oh why can't they offer three or four widely different concepts to vote for? Let the people of Newbury decide, not some design consultant who has zero long term interest in the project beyond a picture or two for his portfolio.

[Simon Kirby]

It's uninspiring and generic, not especially functional, and it doesn't integrate with the landscape. Here's my design:

Uses:

• Cafe
• Boat House
• Toilets
• Changing Rooms
• Council Office
• Meeting Room

Design Vibe: Edwardian boathouse meets modern architecture - think Wind in the Willows with a little glass and stainless steel.

Siting: Functionally the building needs to work as a boathouse for the pedalos on the boating pond - so it makes sense to build it right on the pond side with a watergate. This siting also better integrates the boathouse cafe with the canal which is a defining feature of the park and of Newbury generally.

Something like this:

meets


I'd also use the cafe space in the evenings for council meetings and build the thing with the proceeds of the sale of the council's impractical Gothic mansion in the market place. If the town council cut back on its busy work it could easily be operated by a clerk and a park keeper so they'd only need a small office in the boathouse cafe and the tax-payer would be quids-in.

It would have been good to invite designs from the public with a public vote for the favourite one, but not in Newbury.

[JeffG]

Isn't that a photo of the shed on your ex-allotment?

[The Optimist]

Can anyone make any sense of this? http://www.newbury.gov.uk/pdfs/victoria-pa...onsultation.pdf I think it might be alright, but it is a magnificent piece of obfuscation. A lot of information, but little in the way of showing what they intended to be build. I see a potential wharf museum in the making.

I have to say I quite like it.

Certainly appreciate the comments around indoor area but given it's a park, think it's reasonable to focus on more of an outdoorsy approach. I don't see too many people on a rainy day saying 'lets go to the park for a cup of tea' but can see a sunny day with an open setting being far more appealing and this is what is in their minds I would say (

From a commercial standpoint, it will be hard for someone to make much (any?) money and it could well be a seasonal operating schedule but it's a park. From an entertainment standpoint, parks are largely seasonal.

p22 was the most useful one for me and indicates a decent sized canopy area. Openness very much suits the concept of a public park and as much as I am a huge fan of half timbered houses (like the one Simon indicated) I'm not sure it is suited for this specific setting.

Just my tuppance worth, but it's a clean enough design albeit lacking any particular 'soul'.


PS I have to agree with blackdog that it would be great to see some alternatives and let the public have something of a say in the design of a public facility. Normally a number of architects are asked to propose a design before one is selected so wonder what designs didn't make the cut. If they sole sourced this, it would be a concern.

[On the edge]

Come on folks, you've got a consultation and now you want choice as well!

Given the LibDem predilection for taking over redundant buildings, I would have thought the best option would have been to convert the bowling pavilion now it's clearly redundant through lack of greens.

Simon's boathouse idea wouldn't take round here either. It would need to be built by the water, so leaving more of the park green, when the whole idea is to pave the whole park, so much easier to maintain.

[Simon Kirby]

Isn't that a photo of the shed on your ex-allotment?

[Andy Capp]

People need to remember that we are to loose the Waterside in all this so it is not that a generous development. What makes me suspicious is the pictures don't show its impact on the area. The plan view of the park completely omits the skate park and things like that and shows it as a modest development, yet the plan view of the kiosk is of a more substantial building.

[NWNREADER]

I suspect the decision is made. Did anyone see any of the tender process for the design/project management etc.?

[blackdog]

People need to remember that we are to loose the Waterside in all this so it is not that a generous development. What makes me suspicious is the pictures don't show its impact on the area. The plan view of the park completely omits the skate park and things like that and shows it as a modest development, yet the plan view of the kiosk is a much more substantial building.

The Waterside is not involved - this is NTC's plan, not WBC's. All they are doing is tarting up the park and putting necessary facilities in a central position (unlike WBC's idea of tucking it all away in the corner). I may not be a fan of the proposed design, and they always want to do too much to suit me - but the overall idea makes sense.

The Waterside etc will come up again in the future, when WBC get around to their next attempt to revamp the wharf.

[Andy Capp]

The Waterside is not involved - this is NTC's plan, not WBC's. All they are doing is tarting up the park and putting necessary facilities in a central position (unlike WBC's idea of tucking it all away in the corner). I may not be a fan of the proposed design, and they always want to do too much to suit me - but the overall idea makes sense.

The Waterside etc will come up again in the future, when WBC get around to their next attempt to revamp the wharf.

Of course it is linked! Having as a full a solution as possible makes what happens in the wharf 'easier'.

[Andy Capp]

I suspect the decision is made. Did anyone see any of the tender process for the design/project management etc.?

Exactly and I refer back to my OP: a wharf II; a 'sod you lot' development. The design element seems OK to me, but we shouldn't loose sight of what is happening at a more insidious level. The skate park was going top be a 'bit' bigger, it was much bigger; we have the play park sprawl; we now have a replacement for the kiosk, and it seem to me that they are employing the same technique in that they show it as a modest building, yet a building with so much in it. It's a bleedin' TARDIS it seems. Many objected to the pavilion, partly because of the scale of the foot-print, but we collectively might have an alternative by 'stealth'. You know, build a bit; wait a bit; build a bit more; wait a bit; build a bit more, etc.

[blackdog]

Of course it is linked! Having as a full a solution as possible makes what happens in the wharf 'easier'.

No it isn't - this NTC plan will go ahead regardless of WTC's wharf extravaganza. What happens to the Waterside has nothing to do with the park refurb.

[Andy Capp]

No it isn't - this NTC plan will go ahead regardless of WTC's wharf extravaganza. What happens to the Waterside has nothing to do with the park refurb.

Yes it does. The more the 'new kiosk' can do, the less imperative to replace the Waterside. Who sponsors the project is irrelevant.

[Sherlock]

Can anyone make any sense of this? http://www.newbury.gov.uk/pdfs/victoria-pa...onsultation.pdf I think it might be alright, but it is a magnificent piece of obfuscation. A lot of information, but little in the way of showing what they intended to be build. I see a potential wharf museum in the making.

So far as I can tell they haven't actually produced the final design yet but are asking people to comment on the general idea (aka concept) of an open/minimalist building: is that correct? If so, seems like a great idea to me and I particularly like the idea of the covered area. Simon's ghastly mock Tudor edifice is highly amusing, though. and I'm sure councillors will love the joke.

[On the edge]

Yes, the overall concept is fine, the paving will match the market and Northbrook Street. It's much better than all that wretched grass.

Just a couple of thoughts. Has anyone actually asked if we really need a cafe in Victoria Park? Even if we do, what's wrong with a temporary mobile one!

I loved the brief, some nice tidying up of history there.

Parkway bridge originally constructed in 1940s because the people of Newbury were worried about the town being split in half if the water bridge was taken out. Nothing to do with mitigating the risk of the single crossing for military purposes then.

The existing facility is a 'building of its time', so it's got to go. I suppose the Granary is a building 'of its time' as well, so dies that get the chop too?

[Strafin]

It's horrible, looks like a bus stop.

[NWNREADER]

The 'Joseph Hardy' website is interesting.
As for the personalities, the Project Management company seems to be 2 people in East Anglia and the 'partner' Architect is employed by a London practice. While the usual resort to the only (?) local architect is a bit odd, such a management set-up does not bellow 'local interest'.
The design looks like an off the shelf product that could be for anywhere......

Additionally, where is the business case so citizens can see the facility will not become a burden to the taxpayers?

[Cognosco]

From the drawings it looks as if they have asked the local infants schools to produce what they think it should look like?
The question needs to be asked do we really need to spend money in these tight times for a cafe in the park? It will only be used for a couple of months in the year? With just a short walk you can access any number of the famous Newbury coffee and sandwich shops?
Siting a boat house under the bridge beside the Football club would be more suitable surely.....more suitable vehicle access from Faraday Road too?
As in previous post it does seem to look like a rather large bus stop!
Are there more designs available to pick from or is it the usual we need you to say yes or else?

[On the edge]

Boat house *** cafe under the bridge...that sounds too much like real planning. It might also prove popular, because it would in effect extend the Park and substantially tidy a scruffy part of the town. Let alone be a more useful venue. A really good idea....