Council admit election pledge is unworkable Options

[dannyboy]

Yes, I had to laugh at that statement!!

Don't understand OTE's logic - if the trains went slower then surely the barriers would be down longer?

I'd like to see the reaction from the Kennet Valley commuters - "Sorry but the trains are going to go slower to help the people on the road at the crossing in Thatcham so we will be taking much longer to get you to London."

slower trains take less time to stop, so you can leave the barriers up longer.

[On the edge]

Yes, I had to laugh at that statement!!

Don't understand OTE's logic - if the trains went slower then surely the barriers would be down longer?

I'd like to see the reaction from the Kennet Valley commuters - "Sorry but the trains are going to go slower to help the people on the road at the crossing in Thatcham so we will be taking much longer to get you to London."

Not my logic but yours!

You mentioned that the Southern trains (Egham and places) didn't have such big issues because they went slower. However, to sopell it out in technical terms, if the trains went slower, the time it takes them to stop would be far less and therefore the barriers would not need to be down so long. Unless, of course, railway engineers found adjusting the sensors 'too hard'.

Would there really be an outcry from the rail passengers? After all, they seem quite content to travel in dirty, clapped out, over crowded trains day after day without making too much fuss. Even the rail Regulator isn't that bothered. They didn't even squeak when the fares when up well above inflation recently.

Presumably its quite OK to slow slow down road traffic with additional roundabouts and bus turnings etc. etc etc. so just applying same logic to rail passengers.

[Biker1]

slower trains take less time to stop, so you can leave the barriers up longer.

You would have to re-signal the line so that they were closer to the crossing and more frequent. This would mean that ALL trains would be slower. It's nothing to do with "sensors" it's to do with braking distance. (Thatcham level crossing is controlled manually - not with sensors.)
The crossing barriers are kept down for the minimum time possible taking into consideration the speed and signalling of the line.

I find it unbelievable that we have a suggestion to make our railway slower just for the sake of a bridge, and yes there would be very loud remonstrations from passengers if it were to be even suggested by Network Rail.

The problem is that the road has become increasingly busy as Thatcham has grown. It is only a C - class road carrying A - road traffic.
When the railway was built the road was probably a dirt cart track.
Nothing has been done about a replacement for the level crossing (mainly because of the arguments as to who should pay for it), and the by-pass was built on the wrong side of Newbury.
Having said that people wait at level crossings all over the country. They are a fact of life.
Waiting times vary but on high speed lines all are as long as Thatcham and some are on "A" roads.

OTE, according to the NPS you are in a minority with the opinion of "dirty" and "clapped out"
Notwithstanding that I do not dispute that the quality of rail travel needs improvement but we seem to have settled for a profit - making private industry suffering from lack of investment.
The trains are getting older but they are not "clapped out".
As for cleanliness - blame the habits of some of those that use them.
FGW has a rigorous cleaning regime at its depots but it is a losing battle against dirt and graffiti often caused by those on late night trains.

[dannyboy]

it's to do with braking distance

you got it.

[On the edge]

I find it unbelievable that we have a suggestion to make our railway slower just for the sake of a bridge, and yes there would be very loud remonstrations from passengers if it were to be even suggested by Network Rail.

NPS[/url] you are in a minority with the opinion of "dirty" and "clapped out"

Given that there are no more than minor grumbles about the state of the railway and its rip off fares, I hardly think that adding to the journey times would cause any more disturbance.

Perhaps my personal standards are higher than train users. However, the fact remains the trains are filthy and clapped out. Anyone with a basic engineering knowledge can hear the engines strain as they pull away from every station. Been in any of the lavatories lately? Seen the state of the seats recently? Then try looking under them? Ugggh. Don't know about you, but its not how I'd like to be. And I don't blame really blame the customers - after all even McDonalds manages to keep very clean on a low profit margin.


As to the NPS survey - who did they contact? Was it the lady who was on a train, canvassing passengers to 'answer a few questions - then quickly departing - without taking notes when the going got heavy Oooh we can only collect answers to the questions we ask! Question 1 - Was your train journey Excellent, Very good, Quite acceptable, Adequate? Where was intolerable!!!

Granted the passengers can't go anywhere else. I don't blame FGW - they are simply trying to extract as much cash as they can, straightforward capitalisim. However, its unacceptable and wrong in a monopoly situation. I blame the Regulator - who is extracting a large sum claiming to represent the passengers - which demonstrably he doesn't

The fact is, the crossing barriers should be dropped dependent on the train and its speed NOT just where its passed a fixed point. Those devices were out of date in 1930s.

[Strafin]

When are we gwtting the mayoral referendum that you promised Richard?

[Richard Garvie]

When are we gwtting the mayoral referendum that you promised Richard?

Hopefully in May. The target date for handing in the petition is September if we want a May referendum.

[Biker1]

Anyone with a basic engineering knowledge can hear the engines strain as they pull away from every station.

The engines were designed to run this type of train up to 90mph and could go above. They have always sounded the same since new. It is probably the hydraulic transmission they use to maximise revs. & power that makes them sound as if they are straining.

Been in any of the lavatories lately?

Yes, disgusting - like the people who use them.

Seen the state of the seats recently?

Recently re-covered.

And I don't blame really blame the customers

I do!

The fact is, the crossing barriers should be dropped dependent on the train and its speed NOT just where its passed a fixed point. Those devices were out of date in 1930s.

I am not going to argue any more over the ludicrous suggestion that the nations' trains should be slowed to save drivers a few seconds at level crossings.
To implement this would be cost prohibitive - far cheaper to bridge over the crossings.

[Richard Garvie]

As pointed out before, the signalling could be upgraded but it's unlikely that Thatcham or the Kennet line would be a priority. For trains, the arrangement already works well and unless somebody give Network Rail money to upgrade the crossing and signalling to reduce the time barriers are down, the only other option is a bridge.

[blackdog]

As pointed out before, the signalling could be upgraded but it's unlikely that Thatcham or the Kennet line would be a priority. For trains, the arrangement already works well and unless somebody give Network Rail money to upgrade the crossing and signalling to reduce the time barriers are down, the only other option is a bridge.

As they are planning to electrify the line to Newbury won't they update the signalling then?

[Richard Garvie]

As they are planning to electrify the line to Newbury won't they update the signalling then?

You woukld like to think so, but the upgrades needed that were discussed earlier in this thread are not common place on the |UK railway network if they are in the UK at all.

For the railway buffs, is it not possible to insert a new signal between Aldermaston and Thatcham and between Thatcham and Racecourse so that Turbo's have a trigger point for the barriers and 125's have the existing trigger point?

[dannyboy]

You woukld like to think so, but the upgrades needed that were discussed earlier in this thread are not common place on the |UK railway network if they are in the UK at all.

For the railway buffs, is it not possible to insert a new signal between Aldermaston and Thatcham and between Thatcham and Racecourse so that Turbo's have a trigger point for the barriers and 125's have the existing trigger point?

As the track is owned by one company, the rolling stock by another & the trains run by a third, I doubt this is possible......

Unless we go back to accepting that national transportation based around the railway is a system which can only be run at Government level, then rail travel will, in the UK, forever be a third class system run only for the good of sharehloders.

[Richard Garvie]

As the track is owned by one company, the rolling stock by another & the trains run by a third, I doubt this is possible......

Unless we go back to accepting that national transportation based around the railway is a system which can only be run at Government level, then rail travel will, in the UK, forever be a third class system run only for the good of sharehloders.

Yes, TOC's lease rolling stock from the rolling stock providers, but none of this would come into it. Signalling, track and railway infrastructure is all run by Network Rail, and it would be Network Rail who would need to install it. As the rest of the UK didn't even get the ATP system which is on the GWR route, I don't hold out much hope for a level crossing in Thatcham. A bridge is the only real option I would say, but then it comes down to where the money would come from.

[On the edge]

You woukld like to think so, but the upgrades needed that were discussed earlier in this thread are not common place on the |UK railway network if they are in the UK at all.

For the railway buffs, is it not possible to insert a new signal between Aldermaston and Thatcham and between Thatcham and Racecourse so that Turbo's have a trigger point for the barriers and 125's have the existing trigger point?

Yes of course it is. There are also much cheaper and much safer options using relatively inexpensive and fail safe radio control equipment. That costs money and so the 1970s time expired stuff remains. Whilst the railway operators can get away without spending they will - thats basic Adam Smith stuff. So again, a Regulatory fail. I don't think dwell time at crossings is even measured.

[On the edge]

The engines were designed to run this type of train up to 90mph and could go above. They have always sounded the same since new. It is probably the hydraulic transmission they use to maximise revs. & power that makes them sound as if they are straining.

Yes, disgusting - like the people who use them.


Recently re-covered.

I do!


I am not going to argue any more over the ludicrous suggestion that the nations' trains should be slowed to save drivers a few seconds at level crossings.
To implement this would be cost prohibitive - far cheaper to bridge over the crossings.

As our mechanical engineering tutor used to say 'If it sounds wrong it is wrong'. You are probably right about the transmission, but again, running at maximum rather than optimum means under powered or clapped out in my book. Do you know any car driver who has to put their foot flat on the floor simply to keep moving?

So its the passengers fault! Odd that, these are the self same people who go shopping in Newbury, eat in local restaurants, live in the local streets near you, yet when they board a train, they turn into filthy vandals! Ptresumably most of the FGW train staff have reasonable eyes and ears? I'm also trying to work out how some dirty passenger managed to spray a light coating of soot on the window reveals - which on one train has been there for months.

Finally, you must also find road traffic calming measures similarly ludicrous? All those daft speed restrictors on M25 to Keith Woodham's bus diversion on A4.

All I can think is that if you see this as good service, wish I had you as a customer!

[Biker1]

So its the passengers fault! Odd that, these are the self same people who go shopping in Newbury, eat in local restaurants, live in the local streets near you, yet when they board a train, they turn into filthy vandals! Ptresumably most of the FGW train staff have reasonable eyes and ears? I'm also trying to work out how some dirty passenger managed to spray a light coating of soot on the window reveals - which on one train has been there for months.

No it is not the same people - it is the filthy, drug taking scrotes who travel for nothing.
And yes, there should be staff on trains to prevent this happening.

Finally, you must also find road traffic calming measures similarly ludicrous? All those daft speed restrictors on M25 to Keith Woodham's bus diversion on A4.

Yes I do.

All I can think is that if you see this as good service, wish I had you as a customer!

I have never aid that the railways always give good service and, I agree, leave a lot to be desired.
All I try to do is put forward the facts when I feel that things are being stated incorrectly and out of perspective.

[Richard Garvie]

We should give the Railways to Virgin to look after, they do a brilliant job. I still can't believe they had cross country taken away.

[user23]

We should give the Railways to Virgin to look after, they do a brilliant job. I still can't believe they had cross country taken away.

We should give the railways to Virgin?

Surely they should pay for the privileged?

[On the edge]

No it is not the same people - it is the filthy, drug taking scrotes who travel for nothing.
And yes, there should be staff on trains to prevent this happening.

Yes I do.

I have never aid that the railways always give good service and, I agree, leave a lot to be desired.
All I try to do is put forward the facts when I feel that things are being stated incorrectly and out of perspective.

I have to say, I've never seen any 'filthy drug taking scrotes' and certainly no one without a ticket. Perhaps I'm on the wrong trains. However, as you say, there are staff on these trains, so given the extent of the problem and the time its been like this - what on earth have they been doing? Presumably when trains are taken to the depot for 'maintenance and cleaning' some sort of activity takes place?

You disagree with the barriers to road transport. Then its logical that you'd be against barriers to rail! All I've done is to suggest that both modes of transport should be treated the same way. What incorrect facts have been used and how are things out of perspective?

[Richard Garvie]

We should give the railways to Virgin?

Surely they should pay for the privileged?

Stop being pedantic, you know what I mean. Give them the franchises.