Budget cuts Options

[Turin Machine]

http://info.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=31554
We may all as well go live in a cave! This is pretty poor stuff, from a modern so called caring society.

[On the edge]

Totally agree, this cascade of responsibility is grossly irresponsible. If we can't afford to do something, we can't afford it, period.

[user23]

Totally agree, this cascade of responsibility is grossly irresponsible. If we can't afford to do something, we can't afford it, period.

I disagree. Communities can afford this by raising the precept for their parish, if it's something they want to do in their area.

[On the edge]

I disagree. Communities can afford this by raising the precept for their parish, if it's something they want to do in their area.

West Berkshire is a unitary council, therefore West Berkshire IS the community.

[user23]

West Berkshire is a unitary council, therefore West Berkshire IS the community.

There are 60 or so parishes that make up the community of West Berkshire.

But you must know that, so I don't know quite where you're going with this.

[On the edge]

There are 60 or so parishes that make up the community of West Berkshire.

But you must know that, so I don't know quite where you're going with this.

There are 60 or so parishes that make up the community of West Berkshire.

But you must know that, so I don't know quite where you're going with this.

Quite simply the parish councils have a different role. They are not, and were never intended to be 'mini district councils'. Passing over services on such an ad hoc basis would create role conflict, cause confusion and increase costs, both first and ongoing. Arguably, if the Parish level council could take over the services due to be cut, then there is no reason why they shouldn't take over all the others as well. For instance, NTC covers the area of the previous Newbury Borough; which was thought sufficiently competent to run a wide range of services etc. In effect, you'd be re-creating one sixth of a Berkshire County Council by stealth. That's really going to cut costs!

Quite apart from that, the bigger parish councils have not exactly demonstrated competence or financial prudence. Some have even have a paid administrative establishment and an expensive property portfolio.

I for one would therefore argue that far from taking on more work, parish level councils should be looking to slim down too and be subject to similar severe financial constraints. After all, even the other preceptors such as the Police are making much noise about financial cuts, why should a parish council be any different?

[user23]

Quite simply the parish councils have a different role. They are not, and were never intended to be 'mini district councils'.

I don't agree with that sort of siloed and "we've always done it like that" thinking.

Communities have an opportunity to re-shape the way services are delivered to them, or not if they don't require them, through their parish council.

[On the edge]

I don't agree with that sort of siloed and "we've always done it like that" thinking.

Communities have an opportunity to re-shape the way services are delivered to them, or not if they don't require them, through their parish council.

How right you are; outdated 'mustn't make any change' thought process is EXACTLY why we have the mess we are in today! Moving tasks between councils is just the same as re arranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Why is that even being considered....well, actually I do know, its just the usual Adult / Child relationship our Council insists on having with its voters. 'No darling, Daddy can't afford it....why not ask Mummy?'.

As to reshaping our service delivery, oh yes, lets bring it on, and quickly, but nothing like the failed past models eh?

Lets face it, when the Unitary (by the way that means one) Authority was set up, there was no reason why the whole area couldn't have been 'parished'. That would have made so much more sense. i.e. the Town Wards are big enough and distinct enough to be standalone parishes on their own. We would then have had a properly common immediately local advisory body for every area; not just some. But no, we had to retain the defunct 'Town' as a pretend administrative area. I suppose that fits with the pretend County of Berkshire though.

Do you know of any other organisation that rationalises its organisation and still keeps the redundant units for 'ceremonial' purposes? No wonder local government has a name for 'we've always done it that way' and 'not invented here'.

There is, of course, another niggling issue, quite minor I'm sure, in transferring work to Parishes. That's the first cost in effecting the transfer. In local government that don't come cheap; it took a year of legal wrangling and effort simply for NTC to take a lease on Victoria Park.

[user23]

How right you are; outdated 'mustn't make any change' thought process is EXACTLY why we have the mess we are in today! Moving tasks between councils is just the same as re arranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Why is that even being considered....well, actually I do know, its just the usual Adult / Child relationship our Council insists on having with its voters. 'No darling, Daddy can't afford it....why not ask Mummy?'.

As to reshaping our service delivery, oh yes, lets bring it on, and quickly, but nothing like the failed past models eh?

Lets face it, when the Unitary (by the way that means one) Authority was set up, there was no reason why the whole area couldn't have been 'parished'. That would have made so much more sense. i.e. the Town Wards are big enough and distinct enough to be standalone parishes on their own. We would then have had a properly common immediately local advisory body for every area; not just some. But no, we had to retain the defunct 'Town' as a pretend administrative area. I suppose that fits with the pretend County of Berkshire though.

Do you know of any other organisation that rationalises its organisation and still keeps the redundant units for 'ceremonial' purposes? No wonder local government has a name for 'we've always done it that way' and 'not invented here'.

There is, of course, another niggling issue, quite minor I'm sure, in transferring work to Parishes. That's the first cost in effecting the transfer. In local government that don't come cheap; it took a year of legal wrangling and effort simply for NTC to take a lease on Victoria Park.

Your political campaign against Newbury Town Council might be clouding your judgement on this.

[Cognosco]

Your political campaign against Newbury Town Council might be clouding your judgement on this.

Or it could be the case that your strait jacketed and WBC blinkered outlook may be limiting your vision of the situation?

[user23]

Or it could be the case that your strait jacketed and WBC blinkered outlook may be limiting your vision of the situation?

Perhaps you could describe to me why you think my suggestion to OTE about letting communities decide the services they need for themselves is "strait jacketed and blinkered"?

[Cognosco]

Perhaps you could describe to me why you think my suggestion to OTE about letting communities decide the services they need for themselves is "strait jacketed and blinkered"?

"Your political campaign against Newbury Town Council might be clouding your judgement on this."

Why should the communities decide the services they need when WBC have already been supplying them? If they cut them and request the Parish Council to supply them do we then see a cut in council tax to WBC?
The suggestion that we see a reduction in staff at the top end of WBC would surely be more beneficial than cuts to essential services if at all possible I would agree with.

Other snide remarks can be found by searching for posts made by User23 and you can then carefully read through the posts, if you feel you need any IT instructions I am sure someone will explain this procedure for you. Ensure you take off your WBC blinkers of course, or you could get someone who, shall we say is less biased, to read them for you and explain why they may be considered snide and patroninsing?

[user23]

"Your political campaign against Newbury Town Council might be clouding your judgement on this."

If that's a personal, snide comment then surely this is too?

Agree entirely but I am sure User will be along shortly tell us why this would not be at all possible?

I wouldn't class either as a personal or "snide comment", he doesn't seem upset and neither am I, so I'm not sure why you are.

Mine was just a statement of fact. He's a politician who's campaigned against the town council in the past. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever of course, but as manifested in this thread he does seem to have an obsessive and negative fixation with that council. Remind you of anyone else you might know?

Anyway, I had hoped the standard of conversation might have improved but it seems there's just trolls and wind up merchants posting here these days. Oh for some positive, constructive debate about how communities might do things for themselves.

I guess this isn't the place for that and I'll have to find somewhere else.

[On the edge]

If that's a personal, snide comment then surely this is too?I wouldn't class either as a personal or "snide comment", he doesn't seem upset and neither am I, so I'm not sure why you are.

Mine was just a statement of fact. He's a politician who's campaigned against the town council in the past. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever of course, but as manifested in this thread he does seem to have an obsessive and negative fixation with that council. Remind you of anyone else you might know?
N
Anyway, I had hoped the standard of conversation might have improved but it seems there's just trolls and wind up merchants posting here these days. Oh for some positive, constructive debate about how communities might do things for themselves.

I guess this isn't the place for that and I'll have to find somewhere else.

Some constructive debate about how communities can do things for themselves. OK then, what about promoting a seminar for our Councillors which would show them other sources for funding things, how to set up a public meeting to set things in motion and how to set up self managing trusts? That would then really engage the Community. For instance, if that model was adopted, the Greenham Tower project would be proceeding without any Council involvement at all.

For WBC budget cuts, let's see our Councillors go to the public in an open meeting and call for such ideas and proposals - BUT in a positive way and explaining how it can be achieved. Arguably, with such a push, Mencap itself would then raise the funds to cover any gaps caused by the cuts.

The other proposal I'd suggest is that our Councillors put their oversight if the Council into what in the States is called Chapter 11 mode. That is, they cannot make or authorise any new spending whatsoever. Tough times mean tough measures. This by the way is positive, because it's designed to save the business. The other thing the Councillors have to do is a radical,root and branch review of the 'business' itself. That's where NTC come in, can we really and honestly justify two administrations, particularly with today's modern technology and the joint nature of the base electorate?

So, in summary, 'doing it themselves' means just that, not getting another Council to do it and even to the casual observer, there are low hanging administration savings.

Just imagine, properly constituted stand alone public trusts running most of our services and a very lean and efficient local council! That would be something to be proud of; big society delivered.

Why don't I like NTC? Biggest reason is that it's stopping my locality having a real parish council. I strongly believe that if the NTC was divided into Parishes, there would be a significant saving and a far greater impetus for the localities to deliver things themselves.

So then, there are some positive ideas, what are yours? Let debate commence.

[user23]

Some constructive debate about how communities can do things for themselves. OK then, what about promoting a seminar for our Councillors which would show them other sources for funding things, how to set up a public meeting to set things in motion and how to set up self managing trusts? That would then really engage the Community.

Something like this might already be in the pipeline, though self managing trusts sounds a bit formal and this is really just about enabling people to do things for themselves, by providing the tools for them to do so.

[Simon Kirby]

Something like this might already be in the pipeline, though self managing trusts sounds a bit formal and this is really just about enabling people to do things for themselves, by providing the tools for them to do so.

WBC might be more inclined to hand over their services, I don't know, but NTC sure as hull won't give up diddly. They care nothing for the quality of the service, the public cost, or the public involvement, their only concerns are their control, power and prestige.

[user23]

WBC might be more inclined to hand over their services, I don't know, but NTC sure as hull won't give up diddly. They care nothing for the quality of the service, the public cost, or the public involvement, their only concerns are their control, power and prestige.

NTC is just one town/parish council of 60 which (I think, you probably know better than I) has an annual budget of less than 10% of the savings WBC need to find.

I wouldn't get too fixated on one particular area in West Berkshire, this needs a solution to help all.