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Budget cuts |
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Nov 3 2015, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 3 2015, 08:17 PM) Totally agree, this cascade of responsibility is grossly irresponsible. If we can't afford to do something, we can't afford it, period. I disagree. Communities can afford this by raising the precept for their parish, if it's something they want to do in their area.
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Nov 3 2015, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 3 2015, 07:54 PM) I disagree. Communities can afford this by raising the precept for their parish, if it's something they want to do in their area. West Berkshire is a unitary council, therefore West Berkshire IS the community.
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Nov 3 2015, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 3 2015, 09:55 PM) West Berkshire is a unitary council, therefore West Berkshire IS the community. There are 60 or so parishes that make up the community of West Berkshire. But you must know that, so I don't know quite where you're going with this.
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Nov 3 2015, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 3 2015, 09:05 PM) There are 60 or so parishes that make up the community of West Berkshire.
But you must know that, so I don't know quite where you're going with this. QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 3 2015, 09:05 PM) There are 60 or so parishes that make up the community of West Berkshire.
But you must know that, so I don't know quite where you're going with this. Quite simply the parish councils have a different role. They are not, and were never intended to be 'mini district councils'. Passing over services on such an ad hoc basis would create role conflict, cause confusion and increase costs, both first and ongoing. Arguably, if the Parish level council could take over the services due to be cut, then there is no reason why they shouldn't take over all the others as well. For instance, NTC covers the area of the previous Newbury Borough; which was thought sufficiently competent to run a wide range of services etc. In effect, you'd be re-creating one sixth of a Berkshire County Council by stealth. That's really going to cut costs! Quite apart from that, the bigger parish councils have not exactly demonstrated competence or financial prudence. Some have even have a paid administrative establishment and an expensive property portfolio. I for one would therefore argue that far from taking on more work, parish level councils should be looking to slim down too and be subject to similar severe financial constraints. After all, even the other preceptors such as the Police are making much noise about financial cuts, why should a parish council be any different?
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Nov 4 2015, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 3 2015, 11:35 PM) Quite simply the parish councils have a different role. They are not, and were never intended to be 'mini district councils'. I don't agree with that sort of siloed and "we've always done it like that" thinking. Communities have an opportunity to re-shape the way services are delivered to them, or not if they don't require them, through their parish council.
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Nov 4 2015, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 4 2015, 08:30 PM) I don't agree with that sort of siloed and "we've always done it like that" thinking.
Communities have an opportunity to re-shape the way services are delivered to them, or not if they don't require them, through their parish council. How right you are; outdated 'mustn't make any change' thought process is EXACTLY why we have the mess we are in today! Moving tasks between councils is just the same as re arranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Why is that even being considered....well, actually I do know, its just the usual Adult / Child relationship our Council insists on having with its voters. 'No darling, Daddy can't afford it....why not ask Mummy?'. As to reshaping our service delivery, oh yes, lets bring it on, and quickly, but nothing like the failed past models eh? Lets face it, when the Unitary (by the way that means one) Authority was set up, there was no reason why the whole area couldn't have been 'parished'. That would have made so much more sense. i.e. the Town Wards are big enough and distinct enough to be standalone parishes on their own. We would then have had a properly common immediately local advisory body for every area; not just some. But no, we had to retain the defunct 'Town' as a pretend administrative area. I suppose that fits with the pretend County of Berkshire though. Do you know of any other organisation that rationalises its organisation and still keeps the redundant units for 'ceremonial' purposes? No wonder local government has a name for 'we've always done it that way' and 'not invented here'. There is, of course, another niggling issue, quite minor I'm sure, in transferring work to Parishes. That's the first cost in effecting the transfer. In local government that don't come cheap; it took a year of legal wrangling and effort simply for NTC to take a lease on Victoria Park.
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Nov 4 2015, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 4 2015, 09:47 PM) How right you are; outdated 'mustn't make any change' thought process is EXACTLY why we have the mess we are in today! Moving tasks between councils is just the same as re arranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Why is that even being considered....well, actually I do know, its just the usual Adult / Child relationship our Council insists on having with its voters. 'No darling, Daddy can't afford it....why not ask Mummy?'.
As to reshaping our service delivery, oh yes, lets bring it on, and quickly, but nothing like the failed past models eh?
Lets face it, when the Unitary (by the way that means one) Authority was set up, there was no reason why the whole area couldn't have been 'parished'. That would have made so much more sense. i.e. the Town Wards are big enough and distinct enough to be standalone parishes on their own. We would then have had a properly common immediately local advisory body for every area; not just some. But no, we had to retain the defunct 'Town' as a pretend administrative area. I suppose that fits with the pretend County of Berkshire though.
Do you know of any other organisation that rationalises its organisation and still keeps the redundant units for 'ceremonial' purposes? No wonder local government has a name for 'we've always done it that way' and 'not invented here'.
There is, of course, another niggling issue, quite minor I'm sure, in transferring work to Parishes. That's the first cost in effecting the transfer. In local government that don't come cheap; it took a year of legal wrangling and effort simply for NTC to take a lease on Victoria Park. Your political campaign against Newbury Town Council might be clouding your judgement on this.
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Nov 4 2015, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 4 2015, 08:53 PM) Your political campaign against Newbury Town Council might be clouding your judgement on this. Or it could be the case that your strait jacketed and WBC blinkered outlook may be limiting your vision of the situation?
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Nov 6 2015, 02:10 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 4 2015, 10:28 PM) Perhaps you could describe to me why you think my suggestion to OTE about letting communities decide the services they need for themselves is "strait jacketed and blinkered"? "Your political campaign against Newbury Town Council might be clouding your judgement on this." Why should the communities decide the services they need when WBC have already been supplying them? If they cut them and request the Parish Council to supply them do we then see a cut in council tax to WBC? The suggestion that we see a reduction in staff at the top end of WBC would surely be more beneficial than cuts to essential services if at all possible I would agree with. Other snide remarks can be found by searching for posts made by User23 and you can then carefully read through the posts, if you feel you need any IT instructions I am sure someone will explain this procedure for you. Ensure you take off your WBC blinkers of course, or you could get someone who, shall we say is less biased, to read them for you and explain why they may be considered snide and patroninsing?
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Nov 6 2015, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 6 2015, 02:10 PM) "Your political campaign against Newbury Town Council might be clouding your judgement on this." If that's a personal, snide comment then surely this is too? QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 5 2015, 04:36 PM) Agree entirely but I am sure User will be along shortly tell us why this would not be at all possible? I wouldn't class either as a personal or "snide comment", he doesn't seem upset and neither am I, so I'm not sure why you are. Mine was just a statement of fact. He's a politician who's campaigned against the town council in the past. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever of course, but as manifested in this thread he does seem to have an obsessive and negative fixation with that council. Remind you of anyone else you might know? Anyway, I had hoped the standard of conversation might have improved but it seems there's just trolls and wind up merchants posting here these days. Oh for some positive, constructive debate about how communities might do things for themselves. I guess this isn't the place for that and I'll have to find somewhere else.
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Nov 6 2015, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 6 2015, 05:14 PM) If that's a personal, snide comment then surely this is too?I wouldn't class either as a personal or "snide comment", he doesn't seem upset and neither am I, so I'm not sure why you are.
Mine was just a statement of fact. He's a politician who's campaigned against the town council in the past. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever of course, but as manifested in this thread he does seem to have an obsessive and negative fixation with that council. Remind you of anyone else you might know? N Anyway, I had hoped the standard of conversation might have improved but it seems there's just trolls and wind up merchants posting here these days. Oh for some positive, constructive debate about how communities might do things for themselves.
I guess this isn't the place for that and I'll have to find somewhere else. Some constructive debate about how communities can do things for themselves. OK then, what about promoting a seminar for our Councillors which would show them other sources for funding things, how to set up a public meeting to set things in motion and how to set up self managing trusts? That would then really engage the Community. For instance, if that model was adopted, the Greenham Tower project would be proceeding without any Council involvement at all. For WBC budget cuts, let's see our Councillors go to the public in an open meeting and call for such ideas and proposals - BUT in a positive way and explaining how it can be achieved. Arguably, with such a push, Mencap itself would then raise the funds to cover any gaps caused by the cuts. The other proposal I'd suggest is that our Councillors put their oversight if the Council into what in the States is called Chapter 11 mode. That is, they cannot make or authorise any new spending whatsoever. Tough times mean tough measures. This by the way is positive, because it's designed to save the business. The other thing the Councillors have to do is a radical,root and branch review of the 'business' itself. That's where NTC come in, can we really and honestly justify two administrations, particularly with today's modern technology and the joint nature of the base electorate? So, in summary, 'doing it themselves' means just that, not getting another Council to do it and even to the casual observer, there are low hanging administration savings. Just imagine, properly constituted stand alone public trusts running most of our services and a very lean and efficient local council! That would be something to be proud of; big society delivered. Why don't I like NTC? Biggest reason is that it's stopping my locality having a real parish council. I strongly believe that if the NTC was divided into Parishes, there would be a significant saving and a far greater impetus for the localities to deliver things themselves. So then, there are some positive ideas, what are yours? Let debate commence.
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Nov 7 2015, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 6 2015, 07:49 PM) Some constructive debate about how communities can do things for themselves. OK then, what about promoting a seminar for our Councillors which would show them other sources for funding things, how to set up a public meeting to set things in motion and how to set up self managing trusts? That would then really engage the Community. Something like this might already be in the pipeline, though self managing trusts sounds a bit formal and this is really just about enabling people to do things for themselves, by providing the tools for them to do so.
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Nov 7 2015, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 7 2015, 10:36 AM) Something like this might already be in the pipeline, though self managing trusts sounds a bit formal and this is really just about enabling people to do things for themselves, by providing the tools for them to do so. That's interesting. I'd wholly agree and actually believe that enabling and facilitating should be a prime purpose certainly of parish level councils. Yes, even to the extent of supplying tools. However, therein lies the crunch; my experience and that of others I know, is that those supplying the tools want to carry on using them. Which inevitably takes us back to square one. I've been intimately involved with a couple of very serious initiatives, which at the moment of take off, were hi-jacked by the politicos...crash landings are never fun. Sorry, but community involvement should not be a matter of delivering leaflets or putting the chairs out. As for self governing trusts, yes a degree of formality is needed, particularly for bigger initiatives. For instance, a self managed trust would probably make a pretty good fist at running our museum particularly if coupled with Shaw House. That would necessarily mean our Councils walking right away and leaving them to it. Giving up control is hard to do.
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Posts in this topic
Turin Machine Budget cuts Nov 3 2015, 03:50 PM Cognosco QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 3 2015, 03:50 ... Nov 3 2015, 04:36 PM Simon Kirby WBC are looking to the parish councils to increase... Nov 3 2015, 10:15 PM Cognosco QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 4 2015, 10:28 PM) Per... Nov 5 2015, 04:55 PM user23 QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 5 2015, 04:55 PM) A... Nov 5 2015, 11:20 PM Cognosco QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 6 2015, 05:14 PM) If ... Nov 6 2015, 06:14 PM blackdog QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 7 2015, 01:32 PM... Nov 7 2015, 06:45 PM On the edge QUOTE (blackdog @ Nov 7 2015, 06:45 PM) I... Nov 7 2015, 07:15 PM Simon Kirby QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 7 2015, 10:36 AM) Som... Nov 7 2015, 08:29 PM user23 QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Nov 7 2015, 08:29 PM... Nov 8 2015, 10:21 AM Simon Kirby QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 8 2015, 10:21 AM) NTC... Nov 8 2015, 12:00 PM je suis Charlie QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Nov 8 2015, 01:00 PM... Nov 8 2015, 12:06 PM On the edge QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 8 2015, 10:21 AM) NTC... Nov 8 2015, 07:12 PM On the edge QUOTE (user23 @ Nov 4 2015, 08:53 PM) You... Nov 4 2015, 10:50 PM spartacus This is the bit where "Hooray!! They ... Nov 3 2015, 08:22 PM spartacus QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 3 2015, 04:36 PM) I... Nov 3 2015, 10:10 PM Cognosco QUOTE (spartacus @ Nov 3 2015, 10:10 PM) ... Nov 3 2015, 10:38 PM spartacus Looking at the list of areas to be cut you do wond... Nov 3 2015, 10:29 PM NWNREADER QUOTE (spartacus @ Nov 3 2015, 11:29 PM) ... Nov 6 2015, 09:39 PM Andy Capp QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Nov 6 2015, 09:39 PM) ... Nov 6 2015, 10:02 PM Mr Brown QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 6 2015, 11:02 PM) ... Nov 8 2015, 09:13 AM Turin Machine Err, didn't central dole out millions to West ... Nov 3 2015, 11:11 PM blackdog According to this http://info.westberks.gov.uk/ind... Nov 4 2015, 12:01 AM Cognosco QUOTE (blackdog @ Nov 4 2015, 12:01 AM) A... Nov 4 2015, 07:33 PM blackdog QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 4 2015, 07:33 PM) M... Nov 5 2015, 09:05 AM Andy Capp Wouldn't delegating services down the chain ... Nov 5 2015, 02:18 AM Simon Kirby QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 5 2015, 02:18 AM) ... Nov 5 2015, 12:52 PM Sherlock I wonder where Osborne imagines that cash spent on... Nov 7 2015, 05:12 AM On the edge QUOTE (Sherlock @ Nov 7 2015, 05:12 AM) I... Nov 7 2015, 07:36 AM Petra QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 3 2015, 03:50 ... Nov 8 2015, 09:42 AM Cognosco QUOTE (Petra @ Nov 8 2015, 09:42 AM) Dear... Nov 8 2015, 12:12 PM Cognosco QUOTE (Petra @ Nov 8 2015, 09:42 AM) Dear... Nov 8 2015, 02:40 PM GMR QUOTE (Cognosco @ Nov 8 2015, 02:40 PM) ... Nov 8 2015, 04:30 PM Oneilly QUOTE (Petra @ Nov 8 2015, 10:42 AM) Dear... Nov 8 2015, 01:34 PM GMR QUOTE (Oneilly @ Nov 8 2015, 01:34 PM) Ro... Nov 8 2015, 04:30 PM
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