Immigration Crisis, getting what we deserve? Options

[Andy Capp]

Anyone feel that the current much reported immigration issue is an example of doing something when we shouldn't (Iraq) and not doing something when we should (Syria)? Or is is this a more complex and multifaceted issue. People see what an open society we have compared to their own lot and want a taste of it too? An unintended consequence of an open boarder policy?

[Simon Kirby]

Anyone feel that the current much reported immigration issue is an example of doing something when we shouldn't (Iraq) and not doing something when we should (Syria)? Or is is this a more complex and multifaceted issue.

No, you were right first time. We went into Iraq on the knowingly false pretext of "weapons of mass destruction" when the sound military and humanitarian analysis was that regime change would likely destabilise the region and cause more suffering than it solved, and that a US-led regime change would further alienate the Muslim world against the West.

The suffering of the people fleeing Syria is appalling, and the callousness with which we call these refugees "immigrants", so that we don't think about their children drowning on the shores of the Adriatic but can focus instead on the benefit-scrounging avoided, will be one of those defining horrors which people will read about 100 years from now with incredulity.

[Andy Capp]

No, you were right first time. We went into Iraq on the knowingly false pretext of "weapons of mass destruction" when the sound military and humanitarian analysis was that regime change would likely destabilise the region and cause more suffering than it solved, and that a US-led regime change would further alienate the Muslim world against the West.

The suffering of the people fleeing Syria is appalling, and the callousness with which we call these refugees "immigrants", so that we don't think about their children drowning on the shores of the Adriatic but can focus instead on the benefit-scrounging avoided, will be one of those defining horrors which people will read about 100 years from now with incredulity.

Immigration is just my 'cover all' reference.

My feeling is that it is more about cultural and religious distrust than benefits (although I'm sure benefits is a part of it too). I think post 911 and attitudes to Islam in the west has put back cultural integration by some margin. I can't help but think that if it was a 'developed' community seeking sanctuary, that things might be a little different.

Of course, all this doesn't help in the Monster Raving Tory's quest to cut benefit bills and the impending EU referendum, etc.

Another factor might be the perception that recent immigration has been too great.

[On the edge]

Immigration is just my 'cover all' reference.

My feeling is that it is more about cultural and religious distrust than benefits (although I'm sure benefits is a part of it too). I think post 911 and attitudes to Islam in the west has put back cultural integration by some margin. I can't help but think that if it was a 'developed' community seeking sanctuary, that things might be a little different.

Of course, all this doesn't help in the Monster Raving Tory's quest to cut benefit bills and the impending EU referendum, etc.

Another factor might be the perception that recent immigration has been too great.

We simply don't like any 'immigrants', no matter where they are from. After all, prior to this latest situation, there was a huge disquiet about immigration from Eastern Europe. Poland isn't undeveloped or Muslim. It's often claimed that over the years the UK has traditionally welcomed immigrants, but even a cursory glimpse at history suggests this isn't exactly true. I suspect it's really down to living on an island which makes us rather insular. Let's face it, as we've often seen in this very forum, we don't even like local 'incomers'!

[Andy Capp]

We simply don't like any 'immigrants', no matter where they are from. After all, prior to this latest situation, there was a huge disquiet about immigration from Eastern Europe. Poland isn't undeveloped or Muslim. It's often claimed that over the years the UK has traditionally welcomed immigrants, but even a cursory glimpse at history suggests this isn't exactly true. I suspect it's really down to living on an island which makes us rather insular. Let's face it, as we've often seen in this very forum, we don't even like local 'incomers'!

The polish aren't refugees (which was my original point).

Immigrants are sometimes seen as a threat and the more immigrants differ (accent, language, culture, appearance, etc) from the local populous then the greater that concern.

I don't think we are much different to anywhere else. Many people who travel could tell you of their unpleasant experiences in other regions and countries, but they might also tell you about the good people too.

Perhaps humans are naturally bigoted - maybe hard coded - but some can deal with it easier than others.

Interesting program: http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/through-the-wormhole/

[On the edge]

The polish aren't refugees (which was my original point).

Immigrants are sometimes seen as a threat and the more immigrants differ (accent, language, culture, appearance, etc) from the local populous then the greater that concern.

I don't think we are much different to anywhere else. Many people who travel could tell you of their unpleasant experiences in other regions and countries, but they might also tell you about the good people too.

Perhaps humans are naturally bigoted - maybe hard coded - but some can deal with it easier than others.

Interesting program: http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/through-the-wormhole/

You've lost me I'm afraid. I can't see where you have mentioned 'refugee'. In any event, in reality, there is often very little difference in the effect or how we treat. I've also traveled widely and yes, many cultures are wary of new people, but I've not seen it quite in the same scale as it is reported in some of the more hysterical press. I'd also say we aren't naturally bigoted, a number of close relatives who work with young children in multi cultural situations will attest to this; young kids simply ignore or accept difference. Bigotry is a learned, or given behaviour.

People, even fit youngsters, don't leave their homes, families and familiar surroundings simply for an adventure. I'd argue that the problem we face right now is a World issue so I'm a bit surprised no one has yet thought of involving the UN. It's clear that, for whatever reason, living conditions in the home countries are intolerable. Why can't we have a World peace initiative to sort that?

[Andy Capp]

People, even fit youngsters, don't leave their homes, families and familiar surroundings simply for an adventure. I'd argue that the problem we face right now is a World issue so I'm a bit surprised no one has yet thought of involving the UN. It's clear that, for whatever reason, living conditions in the home countries are intolerable. Why can't we have a World peace initiative to sort that?

http://www.mercycorps.org.uk/articles/turk...ut-syria-crisis

"Is there enough assistance to reach everyone?

In December 2014, the U.N. issued its largest ever appeal for a single crisis — according to their estimates, £5 billion is necessary to meet the needs of all those affected by the crisis, both inside and outside Syria, an increase from last year's £4 billion. Yet that previous appeal was only funded less than 50 percent.

Many humanitarian organisations, including Mercy Corps, are partnering with the U.N., using both private contributions and funding from the international community to actively address the needs of Syrians caught in this terrible disaster. But so much more must be done."