Bringing back Clause 4, Whats in it for us? Options

[On the edge]

You don't have to go back too far and Labour were the opposition party round here. Who says they can't do it again?

There are hints (shock / horror) that a good few would like to reinstate a revised Clause 4! Would that actually help? Well, on this very forum there have been calls to take the railways back into public ownership; simply because the bogus markets don't seem capable of delivering the service we want at costs we can afford. Then take utilities, we might actually be better off with the distribution networks at least being in public hands. Rural broadband might then be more than a dream.

It all depends on the model. In my view, the mistake last time was to equate public ownership with centralisation. This time there are suggestions it should be localised. So far so good. The only hesitation I'd have is our very own local 'public management' experience. Step,forward NTC! However, if words like cooperative and agency were added to the mix - who knows, a brighter future?

Anyway, right or wrong, at least Labour are trying to come up with a real and different vision; not just a different shade of blue and a mine is bigger than yours approach to policy!

[Petra]

Dear all,

I’ve read this thread with great interest and I agree with some of what has been said here. The trouble with the Labour party is that it is a mishmash of Thatcherites (like Blair, Kendall etc), champagne socialists, the wealthy, the poor, loony left, poorly educated etc. While the Tories are a more balanced party. That is why they’ve been in power most of the time.

To go for power, or government, you have to be ruthless and bulldoze everything and everyone in front of you down. The Labour can’t work out what it is or where it is going. Should they move to the left, right or centre. After having 13 years of a Thatcherite Blair government, then losing, they thought that, instead of learning the lessons of their success, they would tear themselves apart by electing from the daft left. Forgetting why they were elected for 13 years. The same happened in the 70s. After being defeated by Thatcher one would have thought they would have learnt the lessons of their defeat, but no. They decided to move even further to the left, making themselves unelectable. The resulting outcome was 18 years of Tory rule. It wasn’t until a Tory in sheep’s clothing was elected, and therefore modifying the Labour party to a right thinking machine (well, almost) that they started making themselves acceptable to a wider voting public. The first thing Labour needs to ask themselves is what do they want to achieve. Government or oblivion. At the moment it seems is oblivion.

The Conservatives have stated that they fear Liz Kendall the most, so what do they do, they put Corbyn in their sights in the hope that they get a dreaming idiot, instead of substance. No wonder they are called the barmy left.

Personally I don’t care who they elected as I don’t think any of them has the charisma, intelligence or the wherewithal to unseat the Tory party. And even if they had elected someone that was half decent they would still come up with problems such as Scotland and boundary changes.

In the mean time what do we do as ordinary citizens? We sit back, pick up the popcorn and enjoy the entertainment that is before us, while the Tory party wins election are election. It never ceases to amaze me of the stupidity of some. Do they do it on purpose or is it more their recruitment policy, straight out of the Twilight zone.

What do you good people of Forum life at the Newbury Today think? Your ramblings are a constant amusement to all those that read these pages, so I, along with the viewers, would be interested in your thoughts of Labour’s ability, not only to tear themselves apart - constantly through time - but their other great aptitude in entertaining everybody in what fools can do when they get to the controls of a dangerous and lethal machine (lethal if they get into power that is).

Yours, as always,

Petra

[On the edge]

Dear all,

I’ve read this thread with great interest and I agree with some of what has been said here. The trouble with the Labour party is that it is a mishmash of Thatcherites (like Blair, Kendall etc), champagne socialists, the wealthy, the poor, loony left, poorly educated etc. While the Tories are a more balanced party. That is why they’ve been in power most of the time.

To go for power, or government, you have to be ruthless and bulldoze everything and everyone in front of you down. The Labour can’t work out what it is or where it is going. Should they move to the left, right or centre. After having 13 years of a Thatcherite Blair government, then losing, they thought that, instead of learning the lessons of their success, they would tear themselves apart by electing from the daft left. Forgetting why they were elected for 13 years. The same happened in the 70s. After being defeated by Thatcher one would have thought they would have learnt the lessons of their defeat, but no. They decided to move even further to the left, making themselves unelectable. The resulting outcome was 18 years of Tory rule. It wasn’t until a Tory in sheep’s clothing was elected, and therefore modifying the Labour party to a right thinking machine (well, almost) that they started making themselves acceptable to a wider voting public. The first thing Labour needs to ask themselves is what do they want to achieve. Government or oblivion. At the moment it seems is oblivion.

The Conservatives have stated that they fear Liz Kendall the most, so what do they do, they put Corbyn in their sights in the hope that they get a dreaming idiot, instead of substance. No wonder they are called the barmy left.

Personally I don’t care who they elected as I don’t think any of them has the charisma, intelligence or the wherewithal to unseat the Tory party. And even if they had elected someone that was half decent they would still come up with problems such as Scotland and boundary changes.

In the mean time what do we do as ordinary citizens? We sit back, pick up the popcorn and enjoy the entertainment that is before us, while the Tory party wins election are election. It never ceases to amaze me of the stupidity of some. Do they do it on purpose or is it more their recruitment policy, straight out of the Twilight zone.

What do you good people of Forum life at the Newbury Today think? Your ramblings are a constant amusement to all those that read these pages, so I, along with the viewers, would be interested in your thoughts of Labour’s ability, not only to tear themselves apart - constantly through time - but their other great aptitude in entertaining everybody in what fools can do when they get to the controls of a dangerous and lethal machine (lethal if they get into power that is).

Yours, as always,

Petra

That's a reasonable synopsis! If the Tories do really fear Liz Kendall, it's simply because she aspires to wear their clothes. Labour have always been rumbustious; a bitter left / right fight. As their recent history demonstrated, you can't even trust your own brother. It's simply the age old fight between the control freaks and the intellectuals. What should us everyday Joes do? We'll doubtless do what we always do...nothing! Politicians have actually learned that keeping the great unwashed content is simply a matter of bread and circuses. All they want is a few quid to spend and some telly which doesn't even have to be decent, just loads of channels. As for the politicos themselves, well, they even let John Prescott become deputy PM and like his LibDem counterpart Nick Clegg, wasn't let do any lasting damage; so no need to worry. I don't think your observations apply only to Labour, after all the Tories also have their fair share, but ad you suggest, are perhaps better at managing them