Why do Armchair Anarchists think Raoul Moat is now a cult hero? Options

[Irish John]

Those with far too much time on their Facebook twittering hands appear to be promoting a mentally unstable deadman to cult hero status. Facebook are refusing to delete said deadman's account. However despite Facebook's shameless self promotion (of which they need little anyway) why would a country get behind another pathetic gunmen in a long line of pathetic english gunmen? Would the same people be praising the Hungerford massacre had it happened now? Discuss...

[gardeb]

For once it looks as if the Judicial sytem is going to work on Sutcliffe, until the European Court Of Human Rights gets involved. A no doubt it will.

He should have hung.

[Andy]

But before that he was trying to say he heard voices and God told him to kill and it wasn't believed/proven

One of the major symptoms of Schizophrenia!!!

I don't hear of many schizophernics killing masses of people though, do you?

Just try typing Schizophrenic killer into Google. There are a multitude of examples

And let's just hope they get treatment before they decide to kill!

As an example....76 in 10 years (Schizophrenia & Psychosis) up until last June and these are just the known documented cases.

Link

[Iommi]

I am happy to agree to disagree with you Iommi. This is a forum and I express my views like you do.

I am not denying you that, nor do I resent it.

I just want to see the proof that people on here, side with evil men and to know what a do-gooder is. If you can back it up then that is fine, but I am suspicious of you and others making false claims. You are free to ignore me if you wish.

[dannyboy]

You appear to belong to the group of people that is in the 'forgive and forget' mentality. It's not one that I agree with personally but you do have the right to free speech.

Nope. He should remain in Hospital. He is a sick & dangerous man. Sick, as in ill & therefore in need of treatment.
I don't agree with the lynch mob mentality of capital punishment. Bloggo is happy to accept that a few innocent people would go to the gallows. No thanks.

[Bloggo]

Nope. He should remain in Hospital. He is a sick & dangerous man. Sick, as in ill & therefore in need of treatment.
I don't agree with the lynch mob mentality of capital punishment. Bloggo is happy to accept that a few innocent people would go to the gallows. No thanks.

I respect your view.
A few innocent people may go to the gallows and I can't deny that. However I believe it would save the lives of countless others from being willfully slaughtered by criminals for whom prison is not a deterent.

[Iommi]

I respect your view. A few innocent people may go to the gallows and I can't deny that. However I believe it would save the lives of countless others from being willfully slaughtered by criminals for whom prison is not a deterent.

If someone has been sent to the gallows, then that suggests that they have already committed the crime. My understanding is that people who are determined to kill are not put-off by the prospect of capitol punishment. Indeed, people who are, just enlist the vulnerable to their dirty work for them.

[Bloggo]

If someone has been sent to the gallows, then that suggests that they have already committed the crime.

Yes and there will always be some that either think the risk is worth it or just don't care.

My understanding is that people who are determined to kill are not put-off by the prospect of capitol punishment.

Maybe but those that kill because there is no deterent that they fear would be stopped by the fear of being hung.

Indeed, people who are, just enlist the vulnerable to their dirty work for them.

How do you know that. Have an example?

[Iommi]

Yes and there will always be some that either think the risk is worth it or just don't care. Maybe but those that kill because there is no deterent that they fear would be stopped by the fear of being hung. How do you know that. Have an example?

I'd like to ask you the same question with your outlook on this.

The reason I know, is that is what I would do to avoid the gallows. That's what gangsters did and do.

A while back, a footballer was found to be involved in a extortion scandal - he was 'ordered' to pay protection money. There was a bloke from a member of the gang who said that, if he was 'ordered' to go and kill someone, he would. He wouldn't want to, but he said if he refused, he or his family would get it instead.

This is just one off the top of my head.

[dannyboy]

I respect your view.
A few innocent people may go to the gallows and I can't deny that. However I believe it would save the lives of countless others from being willfully slaughtered by criminals for whom prison is not a deterent.

'Slaughtered by criminals?'. A byline worthy of the NotW.

apart from police killers, the only other category of murderer you think should be hung are child killers & serial killers. Both the exact type of person likely to be mentally disturbed when carrying out their crimes.
If you really do think that the death penalty is the only deterent that will make killers think twice, I would suggest that those who are not in full control of their faculties in the first place are unlikely to consider the consequences of their actions.

Now a mugger, burglar, etc etc who is not aversed to the use of violence might think twice before arming themselves to aid their criminal activity. Yet this class of criminal isn't on your list of those to face the death penalty.

[Jayjay]

Has there been an inquest?

"Mr Reynolds told the hearing in Newcastle that it was not yet clear whether the devices were used before or after Moat pulled the trigger."

http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/Raoul...d-by.6420910.jp

The inquest into the death of gunman Raoul Moat, who died after a six-hour standoff with police, today heard that he was shot by two officers with Taser guns.

Steve Reynolds, senior investigator at the Independent Police Complaints Commission, told the hearing in Newcastle upon Tyne that the officers, from West Yorkshire police, discharged their Tasers in an apparent attempt to prevent Moat from killing himself.

[user23]

A few innocent people may go to the gallows and I can't deny that. However I believe it would save the lives of countless others from being willfully slaughtered by criminals for whom prison is not a deterent.

I very much doubt brining back the death penalty would deter the common or garden nutter from going on the rampage as they generally do themselves in, in the end.

What's without question is that more innocent people would die at the hands of the state.

[Iommi]

The inquest into the death of gunman Raoul Moat, who died after a six-hour standoff with police, today heard that he was shot by two officers with Taser guns.

Steve Reynolds, senior investigator at the Independent Police Complaints Commission, told the hearing in Newcastle upon Tyne that the officers, from West Yorkshire police, discharged their Tasers in an apparent attempt to prevent Moat from killing himself.

Your quote implies that an inquest had been held, but this isn't the case. It is on-going. That is why I questioned it.

Sorry but I DO pay attention and the inquest said Police tasered him to stop him shooting himself.

This Steve Reynolds fella as a part of the IPCC and doesn't speak for the inquest. He also claimed that it is unclear whether the tazers were used before or after the shooting.

[Bloggo]

'Slaughtered by criminals?'. A byline worthy of the NotW.

Sorry, don't understand "NotW"

apart from police killers, the only other category of murderer you think should be hung are child killers & serial killers. Both the exact type of person likely to be mentally disturbed when carrying out their crimes.
If you really do think that the death penalty is the only deterent that will make killers think twice, I would suggest that those who are not in full control of their faculties in the first place are unlikely to consider the consequences of their actions.

Yes and your point is?

Now a mugger, burglar, etc etc who is not aversed to the use of violence might think twice before arming themselves to aid their criminal activity. Yet this class of criminal isn't on your list of those to face the death penalty.

You're right, I'll add them to the list.

[Guest_Bobby Gillespie_*]

But before that he was trying to say he heard voices and God told him to kill and it wasn't believed/proven......

Wasn't that the great Lizard King himself; David Icke? Lizards, lizards everywhere. Loaded.

[Bloggo]

I'd like to ask you the same question with your outlook on this.

Well, I have said previously, this is my believe.

The reason I know, is that is what I would do to avoid the gallows. That's what gangsters did and do.

Probably true but I don't think it changes anything.

A while back, a footballer was found to be involved in a extortion scandal - he was 'ordered' to pay protection money.

Not sure the relavance of this?

There was a bloke from a member of the gang who said that, if he was 'ordered' to go and kill someone, he would. He wouldn't want to, but he said if he refused, he or his family would get it instead.

Again, I don't think this changes my argument. The chap could have chosen to go to the police rather than kill against his will.

[Iommi]

Not sure the relavance of this?

It's connected with the next passage.

Again, I don't think this changes my argument. The chap could have chosen to go to the police rather than kill against his will.

You sound ignorant of how life in the inner city works. Going to the bill could just possibly be the worst move you make if you value your family's well being.

[Bloggo]

It's connected with the next passage.


You sound ignorant of how life in the inner city works. Going to the bill could just possibly be the worst move you make if you value your family.

No, I am not ignorant, as you charmingly put it, about inner city life. I grew up there.
The point I make is that the chap you talk about would in my world risk the death penalty by killing under orders or risk retribution from the gang by going to the police.
There is no excuse for wantonly taking the life of an innocent person.

It is a pity that we live in a world where someone may have to make that choice but that is another debate.

[Iommi]

No, I am not ignorant, as you charmingly put it, about inner city life. I grew up there.

Which might have been a different place than now. You objected to my word ignorant, what word would you suggest I use to mean the same thing?

The point I make is that the chap you talk about would in my world risk the death penalty by killing under orders or risk retribution from the gang by going to the police. There is no excuse for wantonly taking the life of an innocent person.

There might not be for a level headed person like you, but not everyone thinks and behaves like you. These people I'm talking about are black gangs, possibly the post deprived members of inner city life.

It is a pity that we live in a world where someone may have to make that choice but that is another debate.

I don't think it is, it is all connected. Like I said, in your world, it is possible the vulnerable are the ones most effected.

[Bloggo]

Which might have been a different place than now. You objected to my word ignorant, what word would you suggest I use to mean the same thing?

Yes, It was different then as we were probably less well informed and I don't recall the same incidence of knife and gun crime. Also crimes against children were rarer. Maybe it was the same but we just did not hear about it.
How about "ill informed" or "misled"?

There might not be for a level headed person like you, but not everyone thinks and behaves like you. These people I'm talking about are black gangs, possibly the post deprived members of inner city life.

It is probably no advisable to single out a specific group of gang memebers here as someone will, no doubt, take exception. But I understand your view.

I don't think it is, it is all connected. Like I said, in your world, it is possible the vulnerable are the ones most effected.

Well again I understand what you are saying but I do stand by my original statement regarding the neccessity for the reinstatement of Capital punishment.

[dannyboy]

Sorry, don't understand "NotW"

Yes and your point is?

You're right, I'll add them to the list.

News of the World.

I can't be bothered to explain it - it was pretty clear to start with.