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GAMA Planning Appeal |
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Aug 1 2011, 11:33 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 1 2011, 08:33 PM) The Control Tower is an iconic building in a great location and would be truely excellent as an interpretation center/tearoom. Do you think WBC would be interested in leasing it Phil? What is a "interpretation center". What the control tower should be is an introduction to the D-Day invasion and what happened around the local area during that time with a bit of information about Eisnehower. QUOTE The 'promise' is so woolly that there must be zero confidence in anything ever happening - unless the museum is made a criteria of any planning consent (thou shalt open a museum within 2 years or pay an enormouse fine) which won't happen. Sure, like the WBC, GC Trust or the NTC putting up a plaque saluting all those who served on the base in the various capacities. Next year will be 20 years since the base operationally closed, and still there is nothing there saying how important the base was in WWII and the Cold War.
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Aug 2 2011, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 2 2011, 12:33 AM) What is a "interpretation center". See here. In short an interpretation centre is somewhere that helps make sense of a place for people. A good museum is an interpretation centre of sorts when it goes further than simply displaying its artifacts and usese the artifacts to tell a story and make the place and events relevant for visitors and create that sense of place. And hold onto yourself Phil, but that story includes the contribution of CND and the peace campaigners.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Aug 2 2011, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 2 2011, 07:31 PM) See here. In short an interpretation centre is somewhere that helps make sense of a place for people. A good museum is an interpretation centre of sorts when it goes further than simply displaying its artifacts and usese the artifacts to tell a story and make the place and events relevant for visitors and create that sense of place. And hold onto yourself Phil, but that story includes the contribution of CND and the peace campaigners. Isn't there a "peace garden" dedicated to the peace women OUTSIDE the former front gate. During the 10th anniversary of GC returning to common land there was loads about the peace women and very little about the military. There are also various pieces of art on the GC about the demilitarization of the base. There is NOTHING on the base to acknowledge that it was in the front lines for close to 50 years. As for the contribution of CND and the peace women, what did they actually accomplish that the deployment of cruise did not? Did CND bring the Gorbachev to the peace table. Did the peace women bring down the Berlin Wall and reshape Europe? Perhaps it was the resolve of the NATO countries not to bow to the Warsaw Block and those countries wanting to be out from under the opression of the Russians and their troop "deployments" in their countries. Contributon of CND and peace woment. How about commenting on the drain to council resources and the damage they did on and off the base. If your suggesting that the best idea you can come up with is part of the control tower being an "interpretation" center with it's main focus is to be a tearoom, that that is a slap across the face of every person who ever served up at GC, and to those who left GC on D-Day only to die in battle. I will again fully support the attempts at the GAMA being partly as car storage with the intention of starting up a museum.
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Aug 3 2011, 12:51 AM
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QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 12:36 AM) As for the contribution of CND and the peace women, what did they actually accomplish that the deployment of cruise did not? Did CND bring the Gorbachev to the peace table. Did the peace women bring down the Berlin Wall and reshape Europe? Perhaps it was the resolve of the NATO countries not to bow to the Warsaw Block and those countries wanting to be out from under the opression of the Russians and their troop "deployments" in their countries. Contributon of CND and peace woment. How about commenting on the drain to council resources and the damage they did on and off the base. Well they were still a part of the history, regardless of their motive and achievement. What we can be thankful for, was that the USSR ran out of money before the USA did. QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 12:36 AM) If your suggesting that the best idea you can come up with is part of the control tower being an "interpretation" center with it's main focus is to be a tearoom, that that is a slap across the face of every person who ever served up at GC, and to those who left GC on D-Day only to die in battle. I will again fully support the attempts at the GAMA being partly as car storage with the intention of starting up a museum. Well you'll get your cars, but don't hold your breath for a museum.
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Aug 3 2011, 06:10 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 3 2011, 01:51 AM) Well you'll get your cars, but don't hold your breath for a museum. The early plan for the Control Tower, one of the reasons it was retained, was to use it as an Information Centre and viewing platform..............
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Aug 3 2011, 07:43 AM
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QUOTE Well they were still a part of the history, regardless of their motive and achievement. What we can be thankful for, was that the USSR ran out of money before the USA did. I think their motives were honorable, their actions were dispicable. As for the Russians, it wasn't money, it was the realization that their politics wasn't going to be global, and those who were forced under their rule weren't buying their brand. QUOTE Well you'll get your cars, but don't hold your breath for a museum.
The early plan for the Control Tower, one of the reasons it was retained, was to use it as an Information Centre and viewing platform.............. Unlike the council, know for their transparency. The control tower has sat empty for close to twenty years, and nothing has been made of it to date.
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Aug 3 2011, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 08:43 AM) I think their motives were honorable, their actions were dispicable. As for the Russians, it wasn't money, it was the realization that their politics wasn't going to be global, and those who were forced under their rule weren't buying their brand. I fear you are being naive. It was a game of brinkmanship and the Soviet model was unsustainable, as is now, the US's.
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Aug 3 2011, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE I fear you are being naive. It was a game of brinkmanship and the Soviet model was unsustainable, as is now, the US's. Does East Germany, Poland, Hungary and Czechslovakia spring to mind. That's how the Russians kept their "allies" in line. In both Afghanistan and Iraq the word is "international", be it the U.S. providing a major share of the people their. The brinkmanship came from the NATO side, buy deciding to deploy Cruise. The Warsaw Pact countries on the receiving end were tired of their polices being dictated by Moscow and now having tactical nuclear weapons based in Europe pointed at them.
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Aug 3 2011, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 12:36 PM) Does East Germany, Poland, Hungary and Czechslovakia spring to mind. That's how the Russians kept their "allies" in line. In both Afghanistan and Iraq the word is "international", be it the U.S. providing a the vast majority of the military presence there. I have no sympathy with the Communist ideal (have also adjusted you post for accuracy). QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 12:36 PM) The brinkmanship came from the NATO side, buy deciding to deploy Cruise. The Warsaw Pact countries on the receiving end were tired of their polices being dictated by Moscow and now having tactical nuclear weapons based in Europe pointed at them. The Soviets ran out of money and couldn't pay the army. They collapsed. In the aftermath I am not at all sure the Soviet threat has gone. If anything, they are more dangerous now than before, just at a time the US has had to concede it can't afford world dominion any more. I also suppose that Europe provided a convenient theatre to protect the States - a quid pro quo.
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Aug 3 2011, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 3 2011, 12:54 PM) I have no sympathy with the Communist ideal (have also adjusted you post for accuracy).
The Soviets ran out of money and couldn't pay the army. They collapsed. In the aftermath I am not at all sure the Soviet threat has gone. If anything, they are more dangerous now than before, just at a time the US has had to concede it can't afford world dominion any more.
I also suppose that Europe provided a convenient theatre to protect the States - a quid pro quo. The Soviets did run out of money, they ran out of allies both in and outside of Russia. Their "allies" didn't like their brand nor having a policy gun to their head. Don't confuse the U.S. plans for "world domination" to the British Empire.
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Aug 3 2011, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 02:25 PM) The Soviets did run out of money, they ran out of allies both in and outside of Russia. Their "allies" didn't like their brand nor having a policy gun to their head. Don't confuse the U.S. plans for "world domination" to the British Empire. Where have I done that? In a nutshell. Cruise didn't defeat the USSR. Greenham Common didn't win WW II. Should we have a 'memorial' to the cold war. Perhaps, but many do not share you view of life and many wish to 'forget' the arms race and all that it cost. While the USSR did have an evil under belly, as far as I know, they have never dropped a nuclear warhead on anyone.
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Aug 3 2011, 02:56 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 3 2011, 03:38 PM) Where have I done that?
In a nutshell. Cruise didn't defeat the USSR. Greenham Common didn't win WW II. Should we have a 'memorial' to the cold war. Perhaps, but many do not share you view of life and many wish to 'forget' the arms race and all that it cost.
While the USSR did have an evil under belly, as far as I know, they have never dropped a nuclear warhead on anyone. I believe their testing was done on their own territory before it all went underground - much as we did at Bikini Atoll.... Plenty of places around the UK (and world) have memorials to WW2 (and other conflicts) where significant activities took place. The D-Day flights from GC were significant, not only for the presence of Eisenhower, the nearvby residence of the King of Norway, and the real 'Band of Brothers departure. In my opinion the memorial should be much more to the wartime activities than the GLCM years. Many of those who left for Normandy did not return home......
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Aug 3 2011, 05:24 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Aug 3 2011, 03:56 PM) I believe their testing was done on their own territory before it all went underground - much as we did at Bikini Atoll.... But we didn't do any testing at Bikini....
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Aug 3 2011, 06:32 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 3 2011, 06:24 PM) But we didn't do any testing at Bikini.... My OP was about its belligerent use.
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Aug 3 2011, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE In a nutshell. Cruise didn't defeat the USSR. Greenham Common didn't win WW II. Should we have a 'memorial' to the cold war. Perhaps, but many do not share you view of life and many wish to 'forget' the arms race and all that it cost. It was the resolve of NATO by deploying Cruise that brought the Russians to the table. It was the unrest of those under the thumbs of Russia that helped it as well. If it wasn't for the folks who served up at GC and other locations, you probably wouldn't have the opportunity to take part of a forum such as this. QUOTE While the USSR did have an evil under belly, as far as I know, they have never dropped a nuclear warhead on anyone Truman weighed up the choices, either a million American casualites landing in Japan, or dropping the bomb. As for Russia's evil underbelly, how many Russians were killed under Stalin? Again, the Russian put down anti communist uprisings in Hungary and Czechslovika, and were threating Poland during the Gdansk strikes. They also invaded Afghanistan for no reason. QUOTE I can understand Phil's point, insofar, this is a piece of American heritage as well as a military air field. I might sound ungracious, but my views previously posted are in a way, speaking for those that are not so enthusiastic about a tribute to the arms race, even if we should in reality be grateful. Some don't see it that way. As I said before, I contacted the WBC, GC Trust and the NTC about putting up a plaque for all those regardless of nationality for those who served at Greenham. What happened up at GC during the cruise deployment was as much as a British operation though the weapons and base was under U.S. control. It wasn't the Americans who defended the base during the major demostrations, and it was the RAF Regiment who were assigned to defend the base during wartime operations. QUOTE Plenty of places around the UK (and world) have memorials to WW2 (and other conflicts) where significant activities took place. The D-Day flights from GC were significant, not only for the presence of Eisenhower, the nearvby residence of the King of Norway, and the real 'Band of Brothers departure.
In my opinion the memorial should be much more to the wartime activities than the GLCM years. Many of those who left for Normandy did not return home...... Exactly, which is why a museum complex utilising the control tower, Bldg 274 and the GAMA should be developed.
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