Without a doubt there will be.

Of course it is about catching mistakes - the council should have a). fined the correct amount, . spotted the error.

but, as I said it is cheaper not to look for . & let things run their natural course.

Now, what can't be costed is the SNAFU of having the local paperun stories about council incompetence.....

That would be so if the majority of the claims are spurious....

...leaving the council to generate income elsewhere.....

Cheaper for who(?).


The moral of the story is always appeal; what does one have to lose(?).

Actually what I think mostly happens with all kinds of council complaints is not that the complainant knows they have no grounds, but that the complainant doesn't understand that they need grounds.

It's my experience that people in general have almost no conception of their rights and invariably ground their indignation in some vague sense of injustice. Sometimes that's enough because apart from sociopaths most people share a common sense of justice and it's almost always the simplest and best thing just to go with that.

But if there is a need to escalate the complaint I'd guess that actually very few people would know how to frame their argument.

And then there are indeed honest-to-goodness sociopaths, and it's in the nature of their personality that they can at times insinuate themselves into positions of authority for the very reason that they enjoy d1cking people about. Grounding your complaint on your rights just infuriates them because they're all about being in charge.

Like I said, the moral of the story seems to be that one should always appeal a lapsed parking permit if it is the maximum fine.

the council.

Is this a fact?

A common sense of justice is of course the foundation of English Common Law. It's part of our constitution, which again isn't written that wrongs be tried by our peers. For the very reasons you state, Authority hate it and seek to abolish or codify it at any given opportunity. The latest was the Blair government's deliberate and unchallenged destruction of several hard own freedoms.

Be very very wary of any politician who says that we need a written constitution.

Or that it is right to overlook justice because 'we can't afford it'!

You'd have to ask them.

So no then (?).

Since when have we left facts ruin a good bit of forum banter?

No, I do not know empirically that is is cheaper as presently done. But, logic tells me that if something isn't being done at present, then there surely is a cost in doing it, even if to the casual obswerver the way it is being done seems illogical.

Where I used to work we had a rebate scheme which involved presenting photocopy invoices to a manufacturer.

Only certain products qualifyed.

I concluded that it was cheaper to tell the office junior to photocopy any invoice with that manufacturer's name on it than to educate them as to which were the rebatable lines. So they copied every invoice & I threw away the irrelavent ones. This way we didn't miss any invoices and the rebate cheques were higher.

And everything I post is supposed to contribute to that banter!

If was really serious about trying to make a difference, debating on a forum which has user23 'contributing' wouldn't be the first place I would start!


I don't see it as a matter of logic, but one of ethics.

Ethics are always optional, logic, well, is logic. Ethics come from the heart, lofic from the brain. Mr Spock always had it right.

Er, yes, but regardless, I believe West Berkshire Council's methods are or appear unethical. Ethics is as important as logic, or what ever you point was!

To be a little pedantic, there are two statements on that sign.
First it is a pedestrian zone and secondly it is a no waiting zone.

However if you read it as one statement, whilst it is a pedestrian zone, there is no waiting. It could, in that case, be construed that the rule only applies when it is a pedestrian zone.

I know that is not the spirit of the sign but it is up to the knob heads who design them to be 100% clear in what restriction they are attempting to impose.

I rest my case M'lord.

Human error, like forgetting to renew your permit? Or not seeing a tiny yellow sign on the wall where are no yellow lines, funny how some are an outrage and some are completely reasonable in your eyes!

I don't think I have every been outraged by anything on this forum. Thats my point. You miss the yellow sign & park on the pavement you get a ticket. You forget to renew your permit, you get a fine. You press the wrong button & the fine is thrown out.

big deal. gey over it, move on.

I can't wait for a realy big local **** up - there probably have been many, but we'd never know because of the diversonary 'news' stories every one gets worked up over instead.....

That's bollox, These news items are as such because there isn't a more urgent one that is known about, but personally, the council ripping people off is news. You don't think so, I can get over that too.

You talk about people getting worked up over things, yet you prowl these forums spending no end of time reminding people of the 'error of their ways' (yet when pressed you have not proof you are right either - although I think you know more than you let on.

You and user23 need to realise people post for different reasons and who has the right to say what is appropriate to discuss or not, certainly not user23, or indeed you sometimes.

People do post for all manner of reasons, normally because they feel hard done by & want the aprobation of their peers to vindicate their position.

I just think that the sense of perspective is way out of kilter with the catual topic under discussion.

The council have not been ripping people off in this instance. They simply made a error.

This forum, is just something for a bit of a laugh - I can be pretty much be assured every day that someone will be sptiing feathers over the most trivial of matters & will post accordingly.

Oh, and the pathetic insinuation that 'I must know more than I let on' or am in the employ of the council is tedious & the last resort of many who post on here.

ta ta