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> West Berkshire schoolchildren routinely fingerprinted, SCHOOLCHILDREN are being routinely fingerprinted in some West Berkshir
dannyboy
post Oct 22 2012, 10:48 AM
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QUOTE (Jo Pepper @ Oct 22 2012, 11:46 AM) *
Who knows? What will they be worth in 40 years time when I'm old, grumpy and voting tory (ok perhaps not the last bit). Would I want my children tracked, no. Are they old enough to decide for themselves, no. Should we finger print them, no.

tracked? how exactly? seems to me everyone has been watching too much Mission Impossible again.
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JeffG
post Oct 22 2012, 11:46 AM
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What on earth is all the fuss about? If fingerprints are anonymous (and they don't need to be anything else) what is the problem?

- this fingerprint is entitled to free school meals
- this fingerprint can open this door
- this fingerprint can access this computer

etc. etc.

Even if they weren't anonymous I would have absolutely no problem with my fingerprints being stored somewhere. Isn't the same thing as retinal scans? I don't hear any uproar about that.

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On the edge
post Oct 22 2012, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Oct 22 2012, 11:31 AM) *
can some one explain what use to anyone an 8 year old's fingerprint details are?


OK then, I can make sure the Catholics don't turn up at assembly, little kids often forget. I have positive proof they are at school at any given time
so I'm automatically ensuring better monitoring of 'at risk'. Keep all this data and its a massively useful bit of socio economic info for the future.

Don't get me wrong as a fully trained bureaucrat who made a living for several years selling data mining and inferencing applications to Government, insurance and banking industries I'm all for it.

As a human, I'm not so sure. Might be worth checking the Chief Executives personal number, six,six....


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dannyboy
post Oct 22 2012, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 22 2012, 01:04 PM) *
OK then, I can make sure the Catholics don't turn up at assembly, little kids often forget. I have positive proof they are at school at any given time
so I'm automatically ensuring better monitoring of 'at risk'. Keep all this data and its a massively useful bit of socio economic info for the future.

Don't get me wrong as a fully trained bureaucrat who made a living for several years selling data mining and inferencing applications to Government, insurance and banking industries I'm all for it.

As a human, I'm not so sure. Might be worth checking the Chief Executives personal number, six,six....

I don't understand a word of your post.
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massifheed
post Oct 22 2012, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Oct 22 2012, 01:14 PM) *
I don't understand a word of your post.


Nor me.
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NORTHENDER
post Oct 22 2012, 12:32 PM
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Any relation to Prof Stanley Unwin?
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Penelope
post Oct 22 2012, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 22 2012, 01:04 PM) *
OK then, I can make sure the Catholics don't turn up at assembly, little kids often forget. I have positive proof they are at school at any given time
so I'm automatically ensuring better monitoring of 'at risk'. Keep all this data and its a massively useful bit of socio economic info for the future.

Don't get me wrong as a fully trained bureaucrat who made a living for several years selling data mining and inferencing applications to Government, insurance and banking industries I'm all for it.

As a human, I'm not so sure. Might be worth checking the Chief Executives personal number, six,six....


"Doh"!
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On the edge
post Oct 22 2012, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Oct 22 2012, 01:14 PM) *
I don't understand a word of your post.


But of course, the tidy administrative mind never does - 'till its too late.

I think the phrase 'if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't be worried' fits well alongside 'I'm just following orders' and 'its more than my jobs worth'. Brilliant - we've gone to the expense of taking primary school kids 'dabs' so they can't knock off a free dinner! Amazing.

If this system is really so cheap - why can't we use it to validate electors at Polling Stations? Would be a far better trial and potentially do away with a lot of tellers.



Note - if you want an explanation on the number, you'll need to read the last book in the Bible. Read it all and I hope you'll see the explanation.


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Nothing Much
post Oct 22 2012, 01:41 PM
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I understood it perfectly. which is why I have lost my Nectar card.
ce
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blackdog
post Oct 22 2012, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 22 2012, 02:33 PM) *
If this system is really so cheap - why can't we use it to validate electors at Polling Stations? Would be a far better trial and potentially do away with a lot of tellers.


Fingerprints are very cheap to read these days - £20 or so for a reader. Every homeowner could have one to check if the chap wanting access to read the meter is who he says he is. Doorstep cons could be eradicated. Elections could be run more cheaply and more effectively. Credit card transactions could be verified far more securely. Etc.

But there is huge resistance to the collection and use of fingerprint data - and so far no one has come up with any solid reason for this resistance apart for the fear of being identified as a criminal.
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JeffG
post Oct 22 2012, 06:38 PM
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There is also pointless opposition to ID cards. Much more convenient to show at the sorting office to pick up a package than your passport.
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NWNREADER
post Oct 22 2012, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Oct 22 2012, 11:48 AM) *
tracked? how exactly? seems to me everyone has been watching too much Mission Impossible again.



Simple - if you carry a mobile phone.......
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On the edge
post Oct 22 2012, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Oct 22 2012, 04:42 PM) *
Fingerprints are very cheap to read these days - £20 or so for a reader. Every homeowner could have one to check if the chap wanting access to read the meter is who he says he is. Doorstep cons could be eradicated. Elections could be run more cheaply and more effectively. Credit card transactions could be verified far more securely. Etc.

But there is huge resistance to the collection and use of fingerprint data - and so far no one has come up with any solid reason for this resistance apart for the fear of being identified as a criminal.


Given the trust we all have in our politicians and administrators and taking into account what history has taught us about 'identifying' people I wonder why?


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user23
post Oct 22 2012, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Oct 22 2012, 04:42 PM) *
Fingerprints are very cheap to read these days - £20 or so for a reader. Every homeowner could have one to check if the chap wanting access to read the meter is who he says he is. Doorstep cons could be eradicated. Elections could be run more cheaply and more effectively. Credit card transactions could be verified far more securely. Etc.

But there is huge resistance to the collection and use of fingerprint data - and so far no one has come up with any solid reason for this resistance apart for the fear of being identified as a criminal.
I wonder if those scaremongering about the use of fingerprints own a mobile phone, regularly use a bank card, phone, use a computer with a fixed IP address and so on?

If they do there's far more chance of their actions being recorded.
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Timbo
post Oct 22 2012, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Oct 22 2012, 02:41 PM) *
I understood it perfectly. which is why I have lost my Nectar card.
ce


That was a genuine laugh out loud post. smile.gif
You know they do the little key-ring nectar thingies now?!
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On the edge
post Oct 22 2012, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 22 2012, 08:15 PM) *
I wonder if those scaremongering about the use of fingerprints own a mobile phone, regularly use a bank card, phone, use a computer with a fixed IP address and so on?

If they do there's far more chance of their actions being recorded.


That's quite right. Indeed its rather more than chance. I'm quite happy being a prole, hope the rest of you are too.


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On the edge
post Oct 22 2012, 08:22 PM
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I didn't realise these things were so cheap. Presumably our LEA and Council Offices use the system for entrance door access control. Must go down and see it in action.


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dannyboy
post Oct 23 2012, 09:55 AM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Oct 22 2012, 07:47 PM) *
Simple - if you carry a mobile phone.......

The insinuation was thet a 5 year old could be tracked simply because they provided a fingerprint to get a free school meal or a library book.

Yes, if you have a mobile phone you can be followed with relative ease.
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dannyboy
post Oct 23 2012, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 22 2012, 09:22 PM) *
I didn't realise these things were so cheap. Presumably our LEA and Council Offices use the system for entrance door access control. Must go down and see it in action.

The readers are very cheap. What isn't is the collection & dissemination of the data.

So in the case of the school, you collect the fingerprints of the kids & every lunch time they stick a finger on the reader. Green light = free lunch. The data isn't sent to a central data base & the data is re-collected every term.

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On the edge
post Oct 23 2012, 10:40 AM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Oct 23 2012, 11:00 AM) *
The readers are very cheap. What isn't is the collection & dissemination of the data.

So in the case of the school, you collect the fingerprints of the kids & every lunch time they stick a finger on the reader. Green light = free lunch. The data isn't sent to a central data base & the data is re-collected every term.


That's right - the secret is in the data. Databases can and are linked.

Also right - today the very simple system the school uses is quite safe, today being the operative word.

Glad to hear that today the data isn't sent to a central database and recollected every term. Seem to recall that's how things worked with the Police - but we then found out they didn't. So then, if even our Police service had trouble understanding what 'delete' actually meant - what chance Mrs Miggins in the School canteen!

Then, tomorrow, there is the slick salesman. Do you really need all these individual servers, cloud computing offers you the opportunity to get the physical kit out of schools, saves shed loads of money.

Little acorns!


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