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Newbury estate agents |
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Mar 31 2010, 11:01 AM
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Advanced Member
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From: Newbury
Member No.: 41
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QUOTE (Ozzy @ Mar 31 2010, 11:18 AM) I've had this situation before and to be honest I was too naive to fight it. The deposit is such an easy way to make money for an agency. No matter how much you clean it and how much better the property looks it all comes down to their own interpretation, which is something you cannot really argue against. Clearly you can't leave the property in the same condition you arrived as that's impossible. I'm sure it all comes down to the general wear and tear clause. It is such a typical con and many agencies pull this one. Their word is effectively final on the cleanliness of the property unless you fight it and I strongly suggest you do. No doubt they are pulling this trick on the assumption you won't fight it, which means they think they can get the money easily. Don't take it and I would hazard a guess the more of a fight you put up, the more they will back down. I can't remember the statistic exactly but i heard somewhere that the number of complaints in this country is very low and we all take it on the chin with a typical English stiff upper lip. Most complaints to banks end up with some sort of result, mainly becuase they never expect you to complain. You've done all the right things by contacting everyone you can. If you can get through to the CAB then use their advice - it's free! Why not try contacting people like Watchdog as well? They usually have similar cases on their website which might help. My one bit of advice would be to get your own file in order. Get the contracts together, get photos of before and after, get everything you can so that when you come to put your case to someone there are no gaps at all. And any tenancy contract should always just roll onto a month to month after the intial term. There should be no need to sign any new contract at all. However, by the sounds of it you did actually sign it which means you are most likely bound to it. This link should help and offers you some advice Tenancy Deposit Protection SchemeThere is also some advice here on Notice. It quotes: "From the date the fixed-term ends a tenant can leave, but should still give a month's notice to the landlord. If the tenant opts not to leave, the tenancy becomes a rolling agreement. Tenants on periodic tenancies or rolling agreements should give one month's notice in writing, ending on the day rent is due." Good luck and don't take it! You offer a lot of good advice here but can I say that understanding the agreement that both parties sign up to is crucial and if the curtains, carpets or whatever are clean and unmarked when a new tenant goes in then the landlord has every right to expect the same when the tenant moves out and this is written in the contract. If not then the tenant could wreck the property and walk away with no liability. It's the Landlord who benifits from the deposit from the tenant, not the managing agency. The Landlord also has no legal compulsion to offer a rolling month by month tenancy.
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Bloggo
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Mar 31 2010, 11:41 AM
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Member No.: 649
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Mar 31 2010, 12:01 PM) You offer a lot of good advice here but can I say that understanding the agreement that both parties sign up to is crucial and if the curtains, carpets or whatever are clean and unmarked when a new tenant goes in then the landlord has every right to expect the same when the tenant moves out and this is written in the contract. If not then the tenant could wreck the property and walk away with no liability. It's the Landlord who benifits from the deposit from the tenant, not the managing agency. The Landlord also has no legal compulsion to offer a rolling month by month tenancy. You are right. As I said in my post; if the contract includes all those elements and it was signed then it's effectively binding. The carpets were cleaned, as she stated, so that is rather irrelevant in this case. Curtains is a possibility. Clearly the principle of that clause is to offer the landlord some cover, but I would think it's fair to say that 'some' agencies don't always work hand in hand with the landlord. There can be a lot of wool being pulled over eyes. 18 hours of professional cleaning, forced to sign up to a second 6 month contract - c'mon - that stinks of someone trying it on! I made my points based on the assumption that she has gone to a lot of trouble to clean the property and despite that she's still being charged. I think it's unfair to take £500 based on the steps already taken: scrubbed from top to bottom - 3 days cleaned the carpets professionally 3 month check about three weeks before departure invitation to a pre-inventory checkout Quite frankly it's just unreasonable. I think the Tenancy Deposit Protection scheme is the perfect independent party to suggest agreement in this case. And based on the facts listed here then I can't see £500 being treated as reasonable.
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Mar 31 2010, 12:17 PM
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Advanced Member
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From: Newbury
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QUOTE (Ozzy @ Mar 31 2010, 12:41 PM) You are right. As I said in my post; if the contract includes all those elements and it was signed then it's effectively binding. The carpets were cleaned, as she stated, so that is rather irrelevant in this case. Curtains is a possibility. Maybe the cleaning that was done was not good enough. We don't know. QUOTE Clearly the principle of that clause is to offer the landlord some cover, but I would think it's fair to say that 'some' agencies don't always work hand in hand with the landlord. There can be a lot of wool being pulled over eyes. 18 hours of professional cleaning, forced to sign up to a second 6 month contract - c'mon - that stinks of someone trying it on! Yes, you could be right but if a landlord wants a tenancy longer than one month then he/she is entitled to ask for it and no one force the prospective tenant to accept it. It's their choice. QUOTE I made my points based on the assumption that she has gone to a lot of trouble to clean the property and despite that she's still being charged. I think it's unfair to take £500 based on the steps already taken:
scrubbed from top to bottom - 3 days cleaned the carpets professionally 3 month check about three weeks before departure invitation to a pre-inventory checkout
Quite frankly it's just unreasonable. I think the Tenancy Deposit Protection scheme is the perfect independent party to suggest agreement in this case. And based on the facts listed here then I can't see £500 being treated as reasonable. Yes, I agree that you may be correct but we don't actually know what has really happened.
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Bloggo
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Mar 31 2010, 12:37 PM
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Advanced Member
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Mar 31 2010, 01:17 PM) Maybe the cleaning that was done was not good enough. We don't know.
Yes, you could be right but if a landlord wants a tenancy longer than one month then he/she is entitled to ask for it and no one force the prospective tenant to accept it. It's their choice.
Yes, I agree that you may be correct but we don't actually know what has really happened. At the very least she has good grounds to question the decision. Something somewhere doesn't add up.
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Mar 31 2010, 01:11 PM
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Advanced Member
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Member No.: 261
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Mar 31 2010, 12:17 PM) Maybe the cleaning that was done was not good enough. We don't know.
Yes, you could be right but if a landlord wants a tenancy longer than one month then he/she is entitled to ask for it and no one force the prospective tenant to accept it. It's their choice.
Yes, I agree that you may be correct but we don't actually know what has really happened. There are two sides to every story but having been involved with two local estate agents that have tried a number of questionable things to keep the deposit I have more sympathy with the tenant. I have taken one estate agent to court regarding cleaning that wasn't "good enough" (and incidentally highly inflated cleaning times that couldn't be justified) and won. What is "good enough" is subjective and seems to be always in the agents favour. I was also not offered a rolling contract but was charged for another fixed term contract that I refused to accept, finally being given a free rolling contract. Sadly many agents (but not all) are simply looking for a way to make money and the easiest way is to keep the deposit. So the best thing is to be firm and demand your rights. Most agents belong to an organisation (such as ARLA) that will take action on tenants behalf if the agent is proved to be acting against their agreed code. My recommendation would be to not use an agency if they don't belong to such an organisation.
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Mar 31 2010, 01:39 PM
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Advanced Member
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From: Newbury
Member No.: 20
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This seems quite helpful... http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/e...y-agreement.htmIf there hasn't been an agreement after the fixed term, then you would automatically commence on a periodic agreement. Notice determined by the frequency of the rent. I can't see, however, anything that says a tenant is entitled to to a periodic agreement.
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Mar 31 2010, 01:49 PM
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Member
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Posts: 23
Joined: 24-March 10
Member No.: 795
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Mar 31 2010, 01:17 PM) Yes, you could be right but if a landlord wants a tenancy longer than one month then he/she is entitled to ask for it and no one force the prospective tenant to accept it. It's their choice. We did ask if we could go onto a rolling contract and were told it wasn't allowed. Our only options were: 1) End the tenancy 2) Sign a 6 month agreement 3) Sign a 12 month agreement 4) Speak to a mortgage advisor Given that we had no where else to live, we opted for the 6 month agreement but said we wanted to renegotiate the terms. However A&K weren't bothered in what we wanted and didn't renegotiate with the landlord. It would have been nice for them to give us all the available options to choose from - including the rolling contract - rather than the options that they benefit financially from.
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Mar 31 2010, 01:54 PM
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Member
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Member No.: 795
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QUOTE (Bartholomew @ Mar 31 2010, 02:11 PM) Most agents belong to an organisation (such as ARLA) that will take action on tenants behalf if the agent is proved to be acting against their agreed code. My recommendation would be to not use an agency if they don't belong to such an organisation. Just to expand on this (as we were looking into it yesterday), only sales agents have to belong to an association and are governed by legislation - unfortunately lettings agents aren't covered. However, if like A&K the agent offers both sales and lettings, they must adhere to the legislation and be a member of an association. We're currently in the process of investigating the code by which A&K must adhere to so we can put a substantial complaint together to their member association.
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Mar 31 2010, 02:04 PM
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Advanced Member
Group: Members
Posts: 1,863
Joined: 14-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 41
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QUOTE (Alice @ Mar 31 2010, 02:49 PM) We did ask if we could go onto a rolling contract and were told it wasn't allowed. Our only options were:
1) End the tenancy 2) Sign a 6 month agreement 3) Sign a 12 month agreement 4) Speak to a mortgage advisor Well, you were offered four options each of which seems reasonable. QUOTE Given that we had no where else to live, we opted for the 6 month agreement but said we wanted to renegotiate the terms. However A&K weren't bothered in what we wanted and didn't renegotiate with the landlord. I'm sure that A&K were acting on behalf of the landlord who actually pays them for that service and there would have been no reason for the landlord to want to re-negotiate terms. Landlords preference regarding lengths of tenancies can be dependant on many things but generally landlords and their managing agents understand what is the best deal at the time for both of them. QUOTE It would have been nice for them to give us all the available options to choose from - including the rolling contract - rather than the options that they benefit financially from. I think that they did and a rolling monthly contract was not one of them. I think you will have difficulty getting a rolling monthly tenancy from any agency.
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Bloggo
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Mar 31 2010, 02:46 PM
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Member
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Member No.: 795
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Mar 31 2010, 03:04 PM) I think you will have difficulty getting a rolling monthly tenancy from any agency. I would completely disagree with that. In the last eight years I have rented 11 properties and A&K is the first agency to not offer a rolling tenancy. Many of my family and friends are in rented accommodation and they too have always had the option of moving straight onto a rolling contract once the initial 6/12 month term has finished. My Dad is a landlord himself and the rolling tenancy is a standard thing in his contracts. Also, I've spoken to a couple of other agencies in Newbury about it and they said it's standard practice to offer the rolling tenancy. They were even surprised when I said A&K hadn't given us the option.
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Mar 31 2010, 02:53 PM
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Advanced Member
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From: Newbury
Member No.: 41
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QUOTE (Alice @ Mar 31 2010, 03:46 PM) I would completely disagree with that. In the last eight years I have rented 11 properties and A&K is the first agency to not offer a rolling tenancy. Many of my family and friends are in rented accommodation and they too have always had the option of moving straight onto a rolling contract once the initial 6/12 month term has finished. My Dad is a landlord himself and the rolling tenancy is a standard thing in his contracts.
Also, I've spoken to a couple of other agencies in Newbury about it and they said it's standard practice to offer the rolling tenancy. They were even surprised when I said A&K hadn't given us the option. In that case why didn't you leave A&K and take up a new 6months tenancy with another agent that gave the facility for a rolling contract afterwards.
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Bloggo
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Mar 31 2010, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE (Alice @ Mar 31 2010, 02:54 PM) Just to expand on this (as we were looking into it yesterday), only sales agents have to belong to an association and are governed by legislation - unfortunately lettings agents aren't covered.
However, if like A&K the agent offers both sales and lettings, they must adhere to the legislation and be a member of an association.
We're currently in the process of investigating the code by which A&K must adhere to so we can put a substantial complaint together to their member association. There is always the option of going to the small claims court. I did this and received the outstanding money immediately the summons was issued. The value of this is that it is unlikely that the agent will contest it as a decision against them goes on the Courts register and shows in credit searches. You can request a small claim online and also include the costs of the court action as part of your claim. The only thing that you must do is make sure that your arguments are sound and where there is likely to be an issue, state, accept that and reduce the claim accordingly. This will be looked on favourably as a balanced argument. See www.moneyclaim.gov.uk for more information
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Mar 31 2010, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Mar 31 2010, 08:39 AM) Yep, I agree, both sums are far to high for the work involved. Actually Bloggo rightly or wrongly there is a lot of work for the solicitor to do on house transactions. I recently had some work done on my car and it cost me more, for a lot less hours I might add, than it would have cost for me to get one of our solicitors to work on buying a house for me !! People need to make money it is a fact of life. Obviously I don't know what your job is and I am sure I have never had to do it so don't comment on "the work involved" and I really don't think you can also if you have never done that job yourself. I, from an outsider point of view, can say "well hey why has it cost me £2,000 to have my car repaired for only 6 hours of work - obviously there are a lot of "extras" as well.
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Apr 1 2010, 09:08 AM
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Member No.: 795
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Mar 31 2010, 03:53 PM) In that case why didn't you leave A&K and take up a new 6months tenancy with another agent that gave the facility for a rolling contract afterwards. Sorry for the delay I replying but unfortunatley I can't be at your every beckoning call! We chose to stay where we were for three reasons: 1) because it's stressful having to move, and as we were thinking about buying a house, it would have meant moving twice in one year 2) because moving house costs money - in terms of estate agents fees, inventory fees, hiring a van etc - and we couldn't afford it at the time 3) because we actually liked the house and the area, and as Strafin says, we didn't want to move just to get the rolling contract However, you also miss the point, I shouldn't have to move to find an estate agent that offers a rolling contract, they should offer the option as part of a standard contract. I've already had this verified by the TDS so I don't understand why you continue to argue in favour of A&K. They're not my rules, I just want to make sure that what rules are in place are being adhered to.
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Apr 1 2010, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (diamond41970 @ Mar 31 2010, 10:10 PM) Actually Bloggo rightly or wrongly there is a lot of work for the solicitor to do on house transactions. I recently had some work done on my car and it cost me more, for a lot less hours I might add, than it would have cost for me to get one of our solicitors to work on buying a house for me !! People need to make money it is a fact of life. Obviously I don't know what your job is and I am sure I have never had to do it so don't comment on "the work involved" and I really don't think you can also if you have never done that job yourself. I, from an outsider point of view, can say "well hey why has it cost me £2,000 to have my car repaired for only 6 hours of work - obviously there are a lot of "extras" as well. When we purchased our house, a few of my colleagues recommended Gardner Leader to do the conveyancing. We called a few companies to get quotes and they were actually the cheapest people in Newbury. We were fine with their pricing because it's completely transparent so you know exactly what you're paying for. We were also given the option of doing some things ourselves - like the stamp duty tax return form - but opted for Gardner Leader to do the work because we didn't want the headache. Also, a proportion of the money goes on searches that have to be carried out, so the only money our solicitor took was for his fees which were reasonable for the work involved. He made it clear from the start that we could call him any time for advice - which given that we were first time buyers was greatly appreciated.
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Apr 1 2010, 09:29 AM
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QUOTE (ossy1 @ Mar 31 2010, 08:12 PM) But then they did comment I had been an excellent tenant, there in may lay the answer!!! I believe we were good tenants. We didn't trash the house, we paid our rent on time every month, paid our bills on time every month and left the property in a much better condition than when we entered it - what more do they expect from us? Whilst we were in the property we had no end of grief from A&K and I'm not someone that will just sit down and take it. For example, we had our neighbours spying on us, telling A&K that we were doing things like cutting down the hedges. Rather than coming to us and talking to us about the allegations - which by the way were completely untrue - they chose to send quite rude letters instead. We wrote a letter back stating that we had no intention of cutting the hedges down and didn't know why our neighbours would say such a thing. In our contract it stated that we had the right to enjoy our property without intervention from the landlord or its agents, however, with no end of grief from A&K, they didn't adhere to this clause.
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