OTE, you are creating your own freaking argument: please explain anywhere on this thread where someone has said that the 'innocent farmer' story is, or was, a good thing? I think it is an appalling thing and actually is an extreme example of the reasons I felt the publishing of the picture on this forum was regrettable.

I think everyone would be in agreement that it was a bad thing: so what is your point? You are preaching to the converted.

Copied directly from the NWN report:-

Carla Buckle, aged 52 of Cherry Close, Newbury, was sentenced to eight weeks in prison when she appeared before Reading magistrates court on November 18, after failing to pay more than £3,000 in council tax to West Berkshire Council, who brought forward the case for prosecution.

All I was latterly doing was correcting a comment which clearly demonstrated a fundamental lack of knowledge or was a deliberate attempt to mislead.

Here was that response:

There was no trial and she isn't a criminal. She wasn't found guilty of a crime, just that she hadn't paid her council tax. Hearings, not trials.

I'm sure it was a lack of knowledge because we don't like being mislead do we?

You are making yourself look stupid. Non payment of council tax is not a criminal offence and there is no trial.

On the contrary, OtE's point looks to be right. If the report is to be believed the individual was released from prison, and, since we no longer operate debtors jails, you can only be given a prison sentence if you are found guilty of a crimilal offence. Non-payment of council tax may not in itself be a criminal offence but there has presumably been some criminal act to warrent the prison sentence - I'm guessingthere was some kind of court order which was ignored which was a contempt of court or something like that. I think the NWN might usefully have reported quite how the individual got a prison sentence.

Edit: As WW points out below, someone imprisoned for refusing to pay their council tax is not guilty of any criminal offence but is in point of fact a Civil Prisoner. I do apologise for any offence caused by my mistaken belief that imprisonment implied the commission of a criminal offence.

Big difference between looking stupid and being stupid isn't there hansome one?

What really concerns me is the lack of literacy in our basic legal process that many people display these days. That continues to allow our peers and betters to continually erode these hard fought for freedoms. So thank you for illustrating that so well.

I think this is all besides the point and a quarrel that has come about unnecessarily.

Here it is in black and white, now lets move on. Please consider me impressed with peoples knowledge of law.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-arrears

"Your council can take you to court if you don’t pay the money you owe and the bailiffs can’t recover enough property to cover it.

The court will consider whether you:
can afford to pay the bill
have a valid reason to not pay

You can be sent to prison for up to 3 months if the court decides you don’t have a good reason to not pay your Council Tax and you refuse to do so."

Exactly. This is what you said:

Err yes, she had been imprisoned.

Therefore there had been a trial. That means her failure to pay was tried in the Civil Courts.

That is wrong. There was no trial There is no criminal offence and no criminal record. You can go to prison for non-payment of council tax. What would have been a crime would be if she lied in a means test assessment.

It's not entirely clear to me, but I think it works pretty much as you say: council tax recovery is a civil matter, but the council can apply to the magistrates court (a criminal court) if the debtor refuses to pay, and if the court feels the individual is able to pay but is just not willing then 90 days imprisonment is possible: http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/bankruptcy/debt_relief/12.html. Whether that gives you a criminal record I couldn't say, but I'm guessing it would because I can't see how being sent to prison from the magistrates court could be anything other than a criminal matter.

Edit: As WW says below, someone imprisoned for refusing to pay their council tax is not guilty of a criminal offence and is in point of fact a Civil Prisoner, and I can't now see how that can possibly give you a criminal record as no criminal offence has occurred.

What is the legal situation regarding non payment of Council Tax?

The following is by a qualified solicitor

The legal situation is that non-payment of Council Tax is not a crime, or anything illegal. It is only a civil matter, and a Liability Order is not a criminal order, not would anyone in receipt of a Liability Order have a criminal record. It does not even amount to a County Court Judgement, and it is not recorded by Registry Trust, which is the Government body responsible for recording County Court Judgements. The only two licensed credit reference agencies - Experian and Equifax - have both confirmed the above, as have Registry Trust.

The following is from the legal department of a local county council

Not paying Council Tax is certainly not a criminal offence and the issue of a liability order at the Magistrates Court does not create a criminal record, nor even does it affect your credit rating, unlike County Court judgements, which do!

So OTE is just wrong although he won't be big enough to admit it.

Sigh.

I didn't say not paying council tax was a criminal offence, but contempt of court is - that's what she was gaoled for. In the UK we don't gaol people for non criminal illegalities.

Might be worth asking your 'qualified solicitor' the right question!

You have been provided now with a government link that tells you that one can be jailed for non payment of council tax and you have stated now that she was jailed for contempt of court. You do keep digging don't you? Ok, where did you read that she was jailed for contempt of court? Do you have a link to the source?

She went in as a 'Civil Prisoner' and different rules apply.

Edit: just as WW says below, this is quite true, someone imprisoned for refusing to pay their council tax is not guilty of a criminal offence (though in point of fact I believe there is still a trial).

Thank you WW, top post. Civil Prisoners.

Someone imprisoned for failing to pay their council tax is not guilty of a criminal offence. I apologise if my previous misunderstanding caused offence.

A trial is to establish guilt or innocence. Even in criminal matters a trial only takes place if someone pleads not guilty.

Yes, when you are in prison, there is a categorisation for what are termed civil prisoners BUT the final bit of the legal, process that got you there in the first place is the criminal law; to which your civil law wrong was transferred. When it comes to 'Criminal Records' - these are of course the records held by the Police and terms of imprisonment are in the full record. Yes, this is a complex area of law certainly in procedural terms so it is important to know the source and the context of documentation. The write up published here was from the Penal Reform Trust and should be seen in that light. Suffice to say in the present discussion about TV licences where similarly these civil law defaulters are presently gaoled for non payment of the fee, the change is being termed 'the decriminalisation of TV licence defaults'.

In English?

Artiicle 6 of the Human Rights Act gives everyone the absolute right to a fair trial.


In order to be committed to prison for the non-payment of council tax the non-paying individual has the right to contest the Liability Order, and then the right to contest the Committal Hearing. If you want to quibble over what to call those hearings then fine, call them what you like, but they are both "fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law", or simply put "trials" in the sense of Article 6.

It's not quibbling. There is a fundamental difference. Everybody has the right to a fair trial, but if you plead guilty a trial isn't necessary.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/trial

However, a mini trial can take place even if someone pleads guilty:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/newton_hearings/

Sorry, are you going anywhere with this?