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Posted by: Andrea Jul 14 2009, 02:05 PM

Hi all,

bit of a weird request... was just wondering if any of you own a horse and would be willing to let me introduce my dog to it? (on lead of course and would keep our distance)

I have a 10 month old English Bull Terrier (very friendly... too friendly) and we've just moved out into kintbury. I've taken her out for walks and have noticed horse tracks along the foot path we walk along. She's seen cows before and she got really excited and wanted to go play with them... thankfully I had her on her lead at the time so she couldn't go to them.

Basically I want her to meet a horse so she knows what it is and to teach her to be calm around them.

I'm arranging to spend some time with a trainer first to find out how exactly to go about doing this, so was hoping to introduce her to a horse after spending some time with the dog trainer.

If anyone's willing to lend a hand, send me a message or reply to the thread!

thanks,
Andrea

Posted by: NicolaC Jul 14 2009, 03:52 PM

I don't own a horse unfortunately, but aren't you lucky owning an English Bull Terrier, I think they are the most gorgeous doggies and they are so loving!

Posted by: Andrea Jul 14 2009, 05:44 PM

Thank you Nicola Very true! I've never known a dog who demands as many cuddles as Piglet

If only everyone felt that way towards them

Posted by: Bill1 Jul 14 2009, 08:08 PM

Best of luck with your quest Andrea.

A few years back I would have suggested my sister who used to have one near Enborne, but alas this is no longer the case.

Posted by: NicolaC Jul 15 2009, 01:51 PM

Piglet! How lovely!
I am trying to persuade my partner to get me one but he is happy enough with our little Cocker, who is also very cute....
There is something about tough looking EBT's that just makes them so adorable! You could always call a stables perhaps... Some of the quieter ones might not mind. Maybe Curridge Stables?

Posted by: lordtup Jul 26 2009, 02:33 PM

Andrea,I have no wish to pour cold water on your idea,but I do have a few reservations that you may wish to take on board.
Firstly by allowing your dog to befriend a horse means he is going to view any equine that crosses his path as a potential best buddy which could result in panicking a nervous horse with dire consequences if it is being ridden at the time.
Secondly you have no reason to suppose that his enthusiasm to play with livestock hasn't hidden undertones.He is after all a descendant of a wolf and you don't see them kicking a ball round with a bunch of reindeer.
My best advise to you is to curtail any desire he has to chase / play or generally associate with other animals by being the one,and only one, he wants to play with. ( Tell him that horses can't throw sticks )

Posted by: GMR Jul 26 2009, 03:25 PM

I know we started off with horses and then gradually as the posts went on that horse shrunk into a dog. My tail is even further down - or at least further down from some dogs - and that is to a Jack Russel. A friendly thing... but has never had any real contact with horses so I can't actually link the two. But I have a dog.

Posted by: Andrea Jul 27 2009, 07:25 AM

Hi Lordtup, I don't want to allow my dog to befriend a horse, I want to introduce her to one so she knows what they are and doesn't get so excited when she sees something 'new'. I'm not sure if you have any experience with English Bull Terriers, but mine, as well as every other EBT I know, all get very excited when they meet something new. Piglet has no intention of hurting anything else, but she is a very bouncy energetic dog who when meeting new things, runs up to them and wants to play. Our last incident was at a game farm (that we didn't know was there!) she didn't hurt any of the pheasants, but she did want to play with them.

The last thing I want to do is to force her to be walked on a lead for the rest of her life. She's absolutely brilliant off lead, she just has her moments when things walk by. I know she can get better as she used to get really excited with other dogs and would follow them instead of me... now she'll say hello and continue with me. It's just something she needs to get used to and not find so interesting!

Posted by: Strafin Jul 27 2009, 09:27 AM

I think your idea is a very responsible and sensible one. I wish I did have a horse you could use.

Posted by: Andrea Jul 27 2009, 03:09 PM

Thank you Strafin, I appreciate your comment

Posted by: Me-again Jul 27 2009, 08:27 PM

Hi, if I could just add to your post, as a fellow dog owner, a bit of advice too. I have a dog that is a rescue and he grew up in the countryside. I don't think he had ever been in a town centre or near traffic. I picked up on this straight away as he was so excited by everything and decided to introduce him gently to traffic noises and noisy people etc. I found this was best done after a long walk, so he was calmer and less excitable. Also it is really important not to feel stressed out yourself as dogs really do read minds. Maybe when you do find a horse to meet, arrange to do this after a good walk and think calming thoughts yourself, it does help, really! I hope you find someone with a horse, I can't help, if it were cows I might be able to!

Posted by: spartacus Jul 27 2009, 09:47 PM

I'm obviously in a minority here ...........but what a ridiculous notion!

"Anyone got a horse my Bull Terrier can 'play' with?" I'm sure there's plenty of horsey types over at Lambourn who've got an answer to that one.

"Piglet! Naughty dog! Stop biting Star... Piglet!! You must overcome your natural instinct to chase, bite and disembowel large creatures... You're getting blood all over your fur!"

Just keep the mangy hound on a leash! ....with a muzzle preferably! The EBT has a VERY strong character and if you let it start roaming free off the lead it can quickly try to be the dominant one in the relationship between you and the dog. It's important that the human stays in charge.... Giving the beast free rein is just asking for trouble.

Lordtup may be over-egging it to say the EBT is a direct descendent of a wolf, but the EBT WAS bred as a fighting dog and there's a reason why they're known as 'the gladiator of the canine race' "Bred almost exclusively for killing bulls and bears tied to a post." A few years of selective breeding just can't strike that characteristic out of the dog's DNA.

Only a fool would willingly chance putting the two creatures together. Even if Piglet is a nice doggy, if the horse has got any sense it would kick the crap out of Piglet before he got a chance to sniff his backside....

Just my opinion....

Posted by: Darren Jul 27 2009, 10:59 PM

Wow!!

Don't hold back on our account....

Posted by: Andrea Jul 28 2009, 07:26 AM

Sorry Sparticus, but you're wrong. It's a myth that the EBT was bred as a fighting dog. The EBT was actually bred to be a 'Gentlemans Companion' - Far off from a fighting dog. And unless you've raised an EBT from a puppy, I hardly think you have an opinion at all about their charactoristics. Because of the MYTH that they are a fighting dog, thugs get them and TRAIN them to be aggressive - this can be done with ANY dog.

I don't appreciate you calling my dog a 'mangy hound'. I actually took offence to that statement as I have spent the last 7 months keeping Piglet physically fit and healthy. Since she got her adult teeth and stopped teething, Piglet has never bit anyone or anything, she has great temperment, just as any other EBT that is treated the right way!

As previously stated, I'm not looking to let piglet loose with a horse, she would be kept on a lead and would keep her distance from the horse. I want to introduce her to a few horses just so she knows what they are and doesn't get excited around them.

I hope you don't own a dog. If everyone had the same views as you, there would be nothing but unstable dogs. Dogs deserve a little bit of freedom every now and then, and Piglet's walks are her bit of freedom.

So unless you have something of value to add, then please don't reply.

Posted by: Simon Jul 28 2009, 08:34 AM

Go on Andrea!!!!

Posted by: JeffG Jul 28 2009, 09:03 AM

Spartacus, I'm surprised by your post, having seen your other (sensible) ones. And have you never heard of socialising an animal?

By the way, all dogs are descended from wolves.

Posted by: Darren Jul 28 2009, 12:01 PM

Socialising of any dog is essential, provided it is done within limits.

For example, it is very important that dogs a introduced to children provided it is supervised and they children know it is a dog and not a toy to be poked, teased and generally annoyed.

Generally speaking, horses will present no problem to dogs as in a stable environment dogs are common-place for this reason.

Without proper training, any dog even placid breeds like Labrador and Retrievers can become aggressive, but usually in defence of owner/property. It's only when idiots get the idea that a dog can be used as a weapon that problems start.

Posted by: Andrea Jul 28 2009, 12:33 PM

Exactly. Thank you for your input Darren.

And what a heart breaking thing using dogs as a weapon

Posted by: Chesapeake Jul 28 2009, 12:37 PM

Hi Andrea

Have you thought about walking Piglet up on Greenham Common? There are cows, ponies and horses up there and plenty of animal scents for her sensitive nose to get used to.

We introduced our dog to cows and equines up there and now she just looks at them slightly suspiciously and then gets on with her business. If you come across any ridden horses they are normally quite happy to stop and assist in your introductions. Most people with horses have dogs as well so would be understanding.

Good luck

Posted by: spartacus Jul 28 2009, 12:37 PM

Well come on.... This post HAS been entered under 'Random Rants' so I thought "Why not?".....

Anyway, Bill Sykes had a bull terrier (Bullseye) and look what he ended up doing.... Case closed

The 'Gentlemans Champion' tag is one you'll find on the bull terrier owners club website....
http://www.thebullterrierclub.com/
Pretty much everywhere else accepts that it was originally bred for fighting. Bulls especially may get a little nervous around them (The clue's in the name...) Strong head, muzzle and jaw, with a powerful set of shoulders thrown in for good measure. Favoured method of attack was to grab the bulls top lip or nose and not let go
http://www.bulldoginformation.com/bull-baiting.html

Disgusting history to the reason why such a dog evolved but that's why Piglet looks the way she does (the EBT looks like it was designed by a committee IMHO)

Even the above website acknowledges that they you should be wary near other animals.

"Nevertheless he is a strong and powerful animal, and it should always be remembered that he is a first and foremost a Terrier with a competitive spirit and may not always be tolerant of other animals, though many live together in a household quite happily with other pets. "

I accept dogs may need training for socialising if they are constantly around animals (farm dogs, or dogs around stables.) But socialising just so you can run it off the lead in the country and hope it doesn’t run off into the sunset chasing after the nearest rider out on a hack is something else. It’s called ‘controlling your dog’ isn’t it?

Try “heel!” or “Stay Piglet!” instead? Or use a long leash.

If I remember rightly Princess Anne’s EBT let the side down by chasing the oiks off the Royal Lawns…. Just shows, even with the best of upbringing in the best of all homes in the land, there’s something in-built in the EBT that might make it want to snap..

And yes JeffG... dogs are descended from wolves.... But you could also say that Man is descended from tadpoles if you go back far enough

(Andrea….my tongue is partly in my cheek, but my daughter was also bitten by a dog when she was a toddler (still bears the scars on her calf to this day) so I’m not their biggest fan)

Posted by: Andrea Jul 28 2009, 12:56 PM

Yes you're right, they were used for bull baiting. But this was not why they were bred. They were ORIGINALLY bred to be the Gentlemans Companion.

I don't mean to be rude with this next statement, but did you actually read my original post? I said that we are seeing a dog trainer who will be able to help with the recall and to get her to be not so excited around animals.

I really am sorry that your daughter was bitten by a dog as a toddler and in no way am I trying to be nasty and hurt you at all. But that just shows that your views on this matter are revolved around this incident. You obviously have issues with dogs, and it's a shame you refuse to look passed that one incident. Most Dogs are a joy and it's only a select few that tarnish them. The lady who used to walk Piglet before we moved was extremely wary of walking Piglet as several years ago she was attacked by an unstable EBT, although she did walk Piglet for several months. In the end she came to like Piglet and I feel she has over come at least some of her fear of dogs. Maybe you should try spending some time with various dogs to get a feel for dogs. I sure hope your daughter doesn't have a fear of dogs. I remember having this conversation with AmieB (I'm pretty sure it was her - Where is she anyway?!) and she had a fear of dogs being around her child. Fears are unhealthy! It's for your own good and your daughters good to try your best to over come them.

I will finish this post by repeating myself - Unless you have owned an EBT from a puppy, then you have no say in their charactoristics. Most of the things you read are focused around dogs that have been TRAINED to be aggressive. It's a shame you never hear about the good things dogs do.

Posted by: Newbury Expat Jul 29 2009, 04:02 AM

I hope you get to find a horse for your dog to play with Andrea. That's a nice idea, I only wish more dog owners were as responsible!

I had the pleasure to live with a Pit Bull mutt for a couple of years and he was the most adorable, loving dog.

The problem is not the breed of dog it's the lack of breeding in those that own them . Sadly, some dogs are more disposed to being aggressive and certain owners are disposed to owning these dogs and bringing the tendancies to the fore. This need not be the case with all such dogs. A happy upbringing and a careful owner will see to that.

Sorry to hear some have had bad experiences with dogs, but that shouldn't lead you to believe that all dogs of certain breeds are violent jwas of death ready to eat children at the slightest whim.

Posted by: hamster Jul 31 2009, 01:03 PM

I think the idea of introducing your dog to horses etc is a very good idea. I was out riding on a hack on Tuesday and a dog charged out the bushes barking madly, teeth flashing - you could tell it was scared and reacting that way as seeing the horse surprised it as much as our horses were suprised! Luckily our horses just jumped a bit as they are bomb proof riding school horses.

Our puppy is now 18months old and we reguarly go on footpaths through cow fields (on the lead initially), I spent quite a bit of time letting him aquaint himself (whilst on the lead) with the cows as they all came over and they all had a good sniff of eachother. Now I can walk him through off the lead and he has no interest in the cows whatsoever.

Posted by: hamster Jul 31 2009, 01:30 PM

[/quote]
I accept dogs may need training for socialising if they are constantly around animals (farm dogs, or dogs around stables.) But socialising just so you can run it off the lead in the country and hope it doesn’t run off into the sunset chasing after the nearest rider out on a hack is something else. It’s called ‘controlling your dog’ isn’t it?

Try “heel!” or “Stay Piglet!” instead? Or use a long leash.

[/quote]

I don't agree, dogs should be socialised as widely as possible regardless of whether they are around animals day to day or not. This is so that in an unppredictable world, a sometimes unpredictable animal- like a dog can react in our preferred way. The more they are used to things the less likley they are to cause harm/trouble or overeact. When a dog is over excited by something new (regardless of the breed) they probably won't listen to instructions as they usually might, hence the need to introduce them to potential new situations like meeting horses in a controlled manner first. I am no expert but in my view this is pretty common sense stuff.